"World of Tanks - Coming after digital models..." Topic

Passing this along…

Hi Bill, perhaps this is of interest. World of tanks has sent a DCMA to thingiverse claiming that a fair number of tank models on the site were affecting their trademark. But it looks like they were too loose with their search as this resulted in many not WOT related wargame tank models being removed from the site. For more info you need to be on the facebook page "WW2+ 3D Wargame Printing" – message by Zachary Kavulich. I'm wondering if WOT intends to go after tank models in other media too since they are also into wargame models as well as model kits.

Saw that on FB. Unfortunately WOT have the money to bully people into taking things down. They know many of the designers could not afford to launch counter claims.

After reading about this, I'm still unclear if the two main designers affected on Thingiverse did anything wrong or not. Some say that they may have taken designs (at least some of them) from the game itself, which would be a violation.
If they didn't, then all they need to do is file a counter-claim to Thingiverse and the files go back up unless WOT files an actual lawsuit (my amateur understanding of DCMA law here…) If there was no theft of game IP, then there should be no case.
And if you are the game developer, why would you even bother to bully some guys putting free tank models up online for 3D printing if they weren't stolen (or believed to be stolen, anyway)?
I hope this is all a misunderstanding and the files get restored.

I would suspect that the tank models in question are ones that WoT has "designed" using the data they've collected on vehicles that were never actually built or only a prototype was. Since many of the WoT game vehicles are not historical and never actually existed outside of a drawing or less, they'd be protected as an original product design as WoT did the research and spent the money to do so.

Dan

@Dan Cyr: I know some of them sure are. Others almost certainly aren't, so can easily be counterclaimed.

For those models that have a sketch or prototype existing, WoT can pack hot sand. "We used the same sources you did, so of course our physical model looks like your 3d computer model."

If you really wanted to be evil, all WoT owns of models they created from notes is the computer 3d render, not a physical model, not the data-file to create a physical model.

I'm told:

M. Bergman has uploaded his tanks again and there is some info there too.

link

I'm told:

M. Bergman has uploaded his tanks again and there is some info there too.

Well none of those tanks are what ifs, all bog standard vehicles which WOT can't claim any rights over at all.

Two of the main designers affected on Thingiverse (Bergman and Tigerace)did not do anything wrong. This is a case of Technology confusion. WoT had Thingiverse use a search on 'metatags' which aid when searching for a specific term that simply had matching words in the tag which caused the problem.

Try this Google Search – of tanks world – and autofill will try to take you to WoT. Refuse the autofill and you still get WoT. Look at the results: WoT will be one of the top several returns, Google returns the closest match using Metadata even though you want something different. Try "bobs tanks of the world", WoT forum shows up third or fourth down

So for example: if a web designer wants key search terms for a German King Tiger Tank 3D file they might use: (World War II, German Army Tanks, King Tiger Tank of World War 2, King of Tanks).

When the search engine generates a search line (enter World of Tanks), a file that uses the above string of tags would show up with all the words in the search on the same file. It won't differentiate separators like commas.

(WORLD warII, german army TANKS, king tiger TANK OF WORLD war 2, king of TANKS) – the caps represent the search terms. As you can see all the words in the search term are present, but nothing related to the 3D model being WoT.

Thingiverse, rather than spend the effort to review why hundreds of results posted, simply removed files (via DCMA claim) that were returned by the search, leaving the challenge to prove 'innocence' to the individuals whose designs were removed. It is a free site used to share material, and most dont have any vested interest other than the fun in 3D nor the resources to contest. By the way, this has occurred at the Thingiverse site for other models not "tank" hobby related and it produced the same outcry from those affected.

Additionally, there are very quick methods using CAD software to determine, aside from the metadata, if a model was poached and reused under a new name.

Thus original 3D models made by two professional CAD designers from scratch with no WoT affiliation to infringement were taken down (and put back up).

There are a few on the site in small numbers who are guilty offenders, but not the majority they affected.

This is akin to classifying all Panzer tank models copyright belonging to Germany and everyone who posted a picture of a model using the word "Panzer" in the title or metatag will have the picture deleted immediately. Imagine how vacant the Internet modeling web sites would be the following day.

Thingiverse is lazy, they were well aware when all those returned postings came up in the search that they were not all 100% perfect matches, why they dont manage (if they even could as it grew) better we shall likely never know. From a business perspective, easier to comply when a larger company knocks on your door with lawyers.

It would be nice if our hobbies, from which we seek enjoyment and commonality with our social peers, was somehow left free from such superficial 'bafoonary'.

One final remark, kinda funny too, people have been downloading files from the site that are a bit 'swanky' then saving them with the WoT metadata. Which will then return to Thingiverse a plethora of clothing optional sculptures and adult themed items that are nothing WoT would own showing up as WoT DCMA infringement files. Just hammers home how a few words, a lazy site, a shrewd vendor and a search engine caused a lot of un-pleasantry.

As, a former employee of Wargaming.net. I would venture that this is a case of "Lost in translation" and someone at the Texas HQ who doesn't have a clue.

One final remark, kinda funny too, people have been downloading files from the site that are a bit 'swanky' then saving them with the WoT metadata. Which will then return to Thingiverse a plethora of clothing optional sculptures and adult themed items that are nothing WoT would own showing up as WoT DCMA infringement files. Just hammers home how a few words, a lazy site, a shrewd vendor and a search engine caused a lot of un-pleasantry.

Probably too subtle for WoT…

Doen't cost anything to "hire" a lawyer to file a claim.

Just a % of the winnings, should you actually win in court.

Finding a lawyer that thinks your case is/can be winnable is the challenge.

How can they trademark tanks?

This is basically what GW do isn`t it?

--Don't cost anything to "hire" a lawyer to file a claim.

Just a % of the winnings, should you actually win in court.--

Finding a lawyer that will work "Pro-bono" (free) for a % if the case wins would be unlikely. Lawyers only do this for grand scale notoriety and professional stature. And the % chance of winning would need to be good, so would the % of monetary compensation. None of which I think would come from a WoT litigation.

Of note, one of the designers (Bergman) donates all monetary reward that users send voluntarily to encourage continuation of building models to the MS society of NZ. Good guy all around making free detailed models, donating the money to MS. It's really a shame WoT didn't instead donate to the cause.

From the site:
link
"All tips and license fees will be 100% donated to the MS Society of NZ"

Take a look at the models at the two designers sites, it may reveal more than just a 'mesh'/metatag/metadata dispute.

And they have created just about every single model for WWI, WWII and modern warfare. Users have taken some of the models and made them very detailed.The models can be scaled to to any scale – 15mm (1/100), 20-22mm(1/76-1/72), 28mm (1/56).

Bergman
link

TigerAce1945
link

And another designer JARLANG:
link

And whats really fun about these models is you can customize to any size and add stowage/armor on the models using a very basic 3D program (123Draw, 3D Builder, etc), have it printed on a 3D printer, or printed for you by 3D hub or Shapeways (which can cost depending on the material).

found these during a google 3D search:
3D models printed in 1/72
link
link

And lastly some other designers/modelers – lots of tanks, trucks, half-tracks, WWII, Modern:

3DWargaming
link
3dwargaming.com

Deweycat
link

Foolyo89
link

Buchnerd
link

As of this post some of the models removed have re-posted, some have not.

If you have not had the opportunity to see some of the work in the 3D realm, I hope you find the links enjoyable and informative.

Afaik there were some freaks who offered to rip the actual 3d models from WOT. I really hope they only went for those, and got the rest rather by accident then really trying to claim intellectual property on WW2…

Doen't cost anything to "hire" a lawyer to file a claim.
Just a % of the winnings, should you actually win in court.
Finding a lawyer that thinks your case is/can be winnable is the challenge.

Not so much. Not every attorney will work on a contingency basis, and even those who do, don't do so in every case. The only (economic) reason an attorney would do so is if he/she felt that they had a strong case, and that the up-side of winning was sufficiently high to cover the risk of losing. That said, there is no reason why several small manufacturers might not band together and hire a single lawyer. As long as their interests all aligned, there is no reason why one lawyer could not represent them all. There may be an issue if one manufacturer wanted to settle, but others didn't/couldn't.