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"...a small Peninsular force..." Topic


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©1994-2020 Bill Armintrout
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Garde de Paris06 Apr 2019 3:03 p.m. PST

Hello, 79th PA: You would have fun with the 4th Corps in Spain Sebastiani:
Ist French Division:
I have no information on these regiments about 12 battalions so good free-form painting opportunities!
Artillery?
IInd "German" Division:
- 2nd Nassau, 2 battalions of 6 companies as for the French. Perry's Nassau troops would pass, but they did not have a side satchel in Spain
- 4th Baden same 2 battions of 6 companies. Great looking low "raupenhelm!" The regiment has long-tailed coats, but closed to the waist.
- "half company" of Baden artillery long-tailed coat of dark blue, faced black edged scarlet. Same raupenhelm.
- 2 Dutch battalions one with rose facings the other with sky blue. I once though these were 1 grenadier, 1 flanker and 6 fusilier companies, but may have been 6 as for French
- 1 company of Dutch engineers
- 1 battery of Dutch horse artillery probably 6 guns. Very French-looking dolman (no Pelisse) but shako with plume at side.
- The Frankfurt battalion French 6-company organization
Handsome French light infantry-looking uniform of dark blue, scarlet facings edged white. At one point the flanker company had light green lapels, or even yellow!
- Hessen Darmstadt Erb Prinz regiment of 2 6-company French-style battalions.
- ?half battery" of Hessian artillery Dark blue faced black edged scarlet. Shoulder pads with rounded outer edge in dark blue, edged scarlet? French style shako.
- The Garde de Paris was attached as they entered spain 1 composite battalion, some scarlet habits faced green, others green faced scarlet. Christmas all year long!
That's 9 or 10 battalions, possibly 14 guns
The Polish (Duchy of Warsaw) "Division" of 3 2-battalion 6-company French style regiments.
All wore the French shakos, all had habits anticipating the 1812 Bardin regulations:
- 4th I did mine with yellow plastrons, and all with the square-topped Polish cap (Czapka means cap?).
- 7th
- 9th this regiment's coat was exactly as Bardin 1812, except NO scarlet edge on BOTTOM of the white "plastron."
They may have had both Polish horse and foot artillery sections attached
You can have fun doing a squadron of the Vistula Lancers; Dutch Hussars in sky blue; and/or Westphalian Chevauleger. Might even try the Lancers of Berg 2nd formation that did not serve with the French Imperial Guard.
GdeP

79thPA Supporting Member of TMP06 Apr 2019 4:41 p.m. PST

Thank you, GdP, that was very kind of you.

Garde de Paris07 Apr 2019 1:22 a.m. PST

My pleasure!

GdeP

Prince of Essling07 Apr 2019 1:30 a.m. PST

1st French Division (Liger-Belair) at Talavera contained:
28th, 32nd, 58th & 75th Line Regiments – each had 3 battalions. ? 1 artillery battery attached.

Mike Petro07 Apr 2019 4:28 a.m. PST

Sebastiani IV corps is a good one. Fought at Ocana as well as Talavera. A couple good campaigns can be ran with that corps.

Dn Jackson07 Apr 2019 5:44 a.m. PST

I have the German Disvision. That was a lot of fun to paint.

Garde de Paris07 Apr 2019 9:51 a.m. PST

Does anyone have any drummer, voltigeur, grenadier, sapeur of drum major information got these 4 French regiments. Did any have a battalion in the 1806 white uniform?

Thank you, Prinz of Essling! I cannot access the Nafziger organization of the French Army of Spain from November, 1808, and could not remember the 4 French regiments. I had wanted to do 1 battalion of 36 figures, 28, or 30mm, from each.

I planned one battalion for the German Division for the Nassau, Baden, Dutch, Frankfurt and Hessen; and 3 for the Polish, for a 12- battalion composite 4th wargame division.

12 from the Ist French Corps; and 12 from the IInd French Corps, and would have a wargame corps of 36 battalions.

GdeP

Garde de Paris07 Apr 2019 10:06 a.m. PST

I just looked into the Otto Manuscript book by Guy Dempsey Jr, of 1994, and see a drum major of the 75th probably in undress uniform. It does not give a clue as to drummers, except possibly scarlet lapels?

Bicorn with gold oblongs at each end. 4 gold vertical lines for the cords that keep it in shape. Bold double cord on side to hold cockade and short rounded scarlet plume. No feathers, etc.

Dark blue collar with double wide gold edging front and around the top. dark blue pointed "Polish" cuffs with wide gold edging. 2 golden sergeant strips on left arm above the cuff.

gold 3-loop "trefoils" on each shoulder as epaulettes. Scarlet long-tailed coat and lapels, edged in wide gold lace, lapels pointed at the bottom. Lace continues down along the turnbacks, not shown. The lining is of the tails is scarlet, so the turnbacks may also be scarlet. White vest.

Dark blue tight breeches, "Hungarian" knots at the waist in gold. a sort of 5 loop arrangement.

black boots with odd version on buff leather turndowns. Brass slightly curved saber scabbard, black hilted-saber with simple brass single-piece hand guard enclosure up to the end of the black hilt.

Natural wood baton with silver head looks like an upside down cone with flat top. silver cords wrap the staff, silver point possible 6-8 inches long.

Anyone else have any hints?

GdeP

Prince of Essling07 Apr 2019 1:44 p.m. PST

The 28th & 32nd were designated to have the white uniform.
The 28th facings were "Capucine" – dark orange. Colour was on the collar, cuffs and cuff flaps, plastron, turnbacks & shoulder straps were white edged with Capucine.

The 32nd had purple facings – collar, cuffs, cuff flaps, plastron & turnbacks. Shoulder strapswere white edged purple.

So far no luck looking despite trawling through many sources for the uniforms of the musicians. Can find many for other regiments, but none for our famous four it is as if they didn't exist (but we know that isn't so)!

Prince of Essling07 Apr 2019 2:49 p.m. PST

Some sources suggest the 28th did not receive the white uniform.

Garde de Paris07 Apr 2019 5:59 p.m. PST

I have long toyed with doing a ?brigade? of French regulars from the Revolution, with combined helmet and bicorn.

Facings were:

28 – Not shown in Funcken!

32 – Odd colour. looks flesh!

58 – cramoisy (dark red)

75 – Scarlet

1 grenadier company of 6, 4 fusilier companies of 6, and 6 figures from one of the green-uniformed chasseur battalions to serve a voltigeurs.

Too much like an imaginations force!

GdeP

Prince of Essling08 Apr 2019 1:10 a.m. PST

According to Haythornthwaite & warner "uniforms of the French Revolutionary Wars 1789-1802":
For 1791:
28 Pink (lapel, cuffs, cuff flaps & collar, white buttons – horizontal pockets)
32 Pink (lapels & cuffs, yellow buttons – vertical pockets)
58 Crimson (lapel, cuff flaps & collar, yellow buttons – vertical pockets)
75 Scarlet (lapels & cuffs, yellow buttons – vertical pockets)

dibble08 Apr 2019 1:36 a.m. PST

Perhaps this will be of interest too

I'll have a look around my files and get back to you tomorrow.

Paul :)

Garde de Paris08 Apr 2019 3:30 a.m. PST

My thanks, Prince of Essling. I like the pink as an idea for facings! In the 7YW, everyone who does the Prussians probably has 40th Fusiliers – Kreytzen – even with pink vests and breeches.

Scarlet for the 75th seems to have carried over to the Otto Manuscript drum major, probably to the drummer lapels as well.

Thanks, Paul. 32nd looks like a hard-fighting regiment. I wonder how they might have looked in Egypt.

GdeP

Paul Demet Supporting Member of TMP08 Apr 2019 3:51 a.m. PST

'32nd looks like a hard-fighting regiment. I wonder how they might have looked in Egypt' – I think that by far the best book on the uniforms and organisation of the French in Egypt is Yves Martin's "THE FRENCH ARMY OF THE ORIENT 1798-1801. NAPOLEON'S BELOVED 'EGYPTIANS'" – see: link

von Winterfeldt08 Apr 2019 6:08 a.m. PST

I painted the like this

ERROR - no url for link

Prince of Essling08 Apr 2019 6:09 a.m. PST

Rousselot's Egypt collection

32nd

picture

Brouillet's
32nd
link
link
link
link
link
75th link
link
link

Prince of Essling08 Apr 2019 10:37 a.m. PST

Boisselier:
75th

picture

Rousselot:
75th
link

dibble08 Apr 2019 2:24 p.m. PST

Have some Boisslier in Egypt:

I posted these on the A.C.G site too some time ago.

dibble08 Apr 2019 2:28 p.m. PST

dibble08 Apr 2019 2:33 p.m. PST

dibble08 Apr 2019 2:38 p.m. PST

dibble08 Apr 2019 2:41 p.m. PST

dibble08 Apr 2019 2:49 p.m. PST

von Winterfeldt08 Apr 2019 11:13 p.m. PST

@dibble
You should post all those plates under a seperate thread, otherwise all those nice plates get overlooked.

dibble09 Apr 2019 1:20 a.m. PST

I don't mind! I know where they will be for future reference and also there is a separate thread over on the ACG though not started by me.

link

Prince of Essling

How many of those Rousselot plates do you have?

Prince of Essling09 Apr 2019 1:31 a.m. PST

Hi Dibble,
I have 25 plates in that series (but not sure how many make up the set).
May wander back to ACG and post a new thread there with the set…
Ian

dibble09 Apr 2019 2:37 a.m. PST

Yes! 25 I believe is the set.

You could start a new thread. I've got some odds and sods pictures that I'll contribute if you do

Paul :)

marshalGreg09 Apr 2019 5:37 a.m. PST

For some reason, though i have gone through the registration, I am not able to view the attachments in the ACG still.

RE:"- Hessen Darmstadt Erb Prinz regiment of 2 6-company French-style battalions. "
My understanding the HD units were in the Prussian style organization of 4 companies.
Did this regiment go through a re-organized during travels/upon arrival, to a 6 co organization?

Prince of Essling09 Apr 2019 11:04 a.m. PST

@marshalGreg
Yes – in 1809: Regiment Gross-und Erbprinz reorganised into 3 battalions of 6 companies (1 grenadier, 1 voltigeur & 4 fusilier) for service in Spain.

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