"SYW army organization" Topic

A question to all the SYW gamers out there. When you are building your armies are you going by the historical organization, or the theoretical organizations laid out in many rule systems?
For example, Russian cavalry in some rule books are given up to 25 regiments of dragoons, only 3 ever saw action the rest were being reorganized. They also give them 5 sqdrns when they could realistically only field 3 or maybe 4 sqdrns. Austrian heavy cavalry, in some rule books, was frequently over strength while Prussian cavalry, in the same rule books, was often understrength.
So do you use historical unit strengths or use those given by the rule writers, even if they are wrong

My method is somewhat haphazard: for the Prussians I tend to pick infantry regiments that were famous, were mainly in the "King's" army, and/or had colorful uniforms. For the cavalry I tend towards the famous – Bayreuth Dragoons, Black Hussars, Seydlitz Cuirassiers and the Yellow Cuirassiers.

For the Austrians, I don't care that much but I try to pick regiments with a variety of facing colors so that I might have one each of Red, black, purple, blue and green, etc.

For the Russians, if GMB Designs makes the flag for the regiment then I will paint it. If no flag, then I don't paint the regiment. However, all Russian infantry look the same without any regimental distinctions.

I assume that the average battalion strength for all nations is 600 men. Few regiments were ever at full strength and it is pointless to guess what the campaign strength of a particular regiment was for any specific battle.

For cavalry, I assume smaller regiments for the Russians, French and British, which tended to field 2-3 squadrons in the field. I allow 5 squadrons for the Austrians and Prussians.

I generally follow historical army lists, and have built my 10mm armies accordingly.

So far Austrian, Prussian, Russian……Allied in the painting process and French next!

I tend to build mine based on a particular big battle, but tend to make them full strength. As my rules have 1 stand to a squadron / 4 stands to a battalion, it allows for some difference in size dependent on the dice they throw in the game!!!!

Much like Fritz I often pick regiments I like – which is why in my 16 infantry-regiment French army I have five regiments from the Irish brigade

I build up standard size units (28mm – 24 fig infantry, 12 fig cavalry) and when using a historical OOB that calls for bigger/smaller units I add or subtract stands – I have some regiments with multiple battalions I use for this

Your point about Russian cavalry is spot on – the Russians used very few dragoons in the field, relying more on horse grenadiers and cuirassiers

I began years ago to build a French Army for the western theater, and focused on the most unusual colours. I liked the Freikorps French infantry with double turnbacks. Some Minifig 15's.

I bought Pengel & Hurt's somewhat confusing, typed books, but found their list of French regiments and their actions a real eye opener! Infantry regiment Penthievre (#55) had a great colour of brown and green, with anchors on the cross arms. When I learned that they were on coastal duty for the entire war, I took away their colours and made them one the regiments that fought the most – Touraine, #18. Both had blue vests and cuffs, silver lace.

For all my French, Austrian, Prussian and Hanoverian troops, I picked the regiments that appeared most on campaign.

By the way, the Penthievre heavy cavalry regiment saw a lot of field service, and wore the "cool" bearskin of a relatively few regiments. Their trumpeters were in red with blue,yellow,blue lace lines. A challenge in 15mm!

I notice the almost every gamer who does Prussians does Fusilier Regiment Kreytzen #40 – the chaps with pink "everything" except coats. They were the "most destroyed" Prussian infantry regiment of the era!

The Fusilier regiments in general did not get into nearly as many fights as the old Musketeer regiments. I use 35 – Prinz Heinrich; 40 and two others below the 40 series – in storage, forget their numbers.

GdeP

Just getting started on my French, a couple infantry brigades 2 of the 4 battalions of Grenadiers de France, 1 regiment of dragoons, and some rather nondescript light troops. I have picked a wing from one of the OOB in kronoskaf, forget which battle right now, and plan to build that entire wing, 8 cavalry regiments, one is the 3 sqrdn Colonel General, and one is the fur hat cuirassiers du roi. Two of these regiments were unknown, I will probably make at least one of them a fur hat unit as well, love the bearskins!

Started with Russians and Prussians for Gross-Jagersdorf as a base, but then added a few more colourful Hussar regiments for both sides and padded it out with more infantry with nice flags and facings for the Prussians, and some Observation Corps Russians.

..and lots of Cossacks.

To follow on Der Alte Fritz's post, I will first look for a common color – e.g. my first Austrian dragoons were a regiment in blue coats, as that was the most common (I went through each of the entries on kronoskaf and counted). Second regiment was in red as next most common, etc.

I have four grenz battalions, so one is white, one is blue, one is red and one is purple.

Next, in a situation where there is great uniformity, I will look for uniquely attired units. For example, for my Prussian cuirassiers, the second unit I did was the Prinz von Preußen regiment in yellow coats, since all the others are off-white.

For Russian infantry, you can do the Apsheronskiy regiment with red gaiters.

As far as number of figures/stands, I typically go with historic organization – my Prussian infantry are 5 stands/companies, my Austrians 6. If you need to do understrength, leave off a stand – better to do that than having to mix to do full strength.

Just my $0.02 USD…

OK, since I have all this combined knowledge at my fingertips, POWER!!!!!, ah ehm, sorry got a little carried away there. Anyway, my personal and very obscure reference library was gutted during the "Long Drive" from Minnesota to Florida, I am limited to internet and the few obscure tomes that I retained and, of course, kronoskaf project 7 years war. What did the grenadier companies of the Grenzers wear, bearskins or the shako like hat that the line companies wore? I know kronoskaf says bearskin, but Greenwood and Ball says the shako, the grenadiers having brass front plates and red tops. I don't really see any other handy references that are specific on this point.

Oh, Fat Wally you forgot something your Russians need….
Lots MOORE Cossacks!!!!

And codiver I like your choice of dragoons and Grenz infantry, red, blue, and white, but "purple" not trying to be too critical but which regiment was purple? Also you might want to add 1 or 2 squadrons of Grenz hussars, never more than two squadrons from the same generalate though, lots of color variety there.

I organised my Russians and Prussians loosely around the Zorndorf OoB then added units because they looked good or interested me.

Usually follow Kronoskaf armies to work out unit/sqdrn numbers but will buy and paint up the full field-strength units knowing I can drop off stands to account for campaign losses. Many of my SYW games are fictional scenarios anyway, so I often have the units at full strength so I can use all my toys.

Concur with the above about needing more Cossacks. Numbers are usually vague but we know they had lots of them!

For my French Army – I stated with two regiments that fought in both Europe and N. America (use for both SYW &F&I), the rest of my French coming from the OoB for the Battle of Minden. Plus the French Infantry are restricted to regiments who's buttons and pocket match those of the castings. My Brunswickers are all the units they fielded during the war. British, Hessians, and Hanoverians are also from Minden's OoB. I try to stay away from "Famous Regiments". This avoids there being too many of the same regiment in a game where other players also supply troops.

von Schwartz,

The "purple" is Karlstädter-Szluiner: link

Kronoskaf actually calls it "light blue", but the picture, and my unit, look "purplish" to me…

I do have a unit of Grenz Hussars. I have to admit it was because of a fortuitous find of some of the figures on eBay. They are Front Rank, there is an awesome figure holding a severed head. I ended up doing them in red (Warasdiner), but I don't recall exactly why.

The cavalry units that I did with a couple of figures from different regiments are the converged carabiniers and horse grenadiers.

My forces are strictly based on actual OoB. First I did Lobositz and then Kolin.

OK, light blue, I see where that may be construed as "purple". I had a friend who painted an Austrian hussar regiment with yellow distinctives because he thought that cornflower was a shade of yellow. I'm glad he told me cuz I thought the same thing and was about to paint the same unit.