"Do Standees Count as Miniatures?" Topic

Does a small figurine which consists of a 2D paper image and a plastic stand, or a self-standing paper figurine, known as a standees, count as a miniature?

Yep. Don't see why not.

I believe they count.

Flats count, right?

Not on my table.

Sure. Why not?

No. Flats, that get painted do.

Yes, they count

I don't believe so.

link

I struggle to see a difference…

link

…from one to the other.

Yes. They are (literally) "paper miniatures," so therefore they are miniatures.
"Miniature" is, after all, merely a term for a small scale representation of a larger object or person. That's all the word means. It doesn't mean "three dimensional," or "metal" or "plastic" or any other more precisely defining characteristic.

Whether one likes them, or would place such on the table, is an entirely different issue than how paper miniatures fit within the broad definition of "miniature." To say one doesn't like them is a perfectly reasonable statement of preference. To say they "don't count" (and thus to disparage someone else's preference) is actually just snobbery.

Technically yes, they are a 2-D representation.

Not for me.

I have made 2D representations of troops and had folks believe they were minatures untill they got close up. I even had a very Irate gentleman come up to me in a show. He was cross as he had walked past our wooded battlefield several times before realising that the trees were just a card crusiform, he was cross becaude he was offended that we "tricked" him. However there were lots of trees.

To be honest I would love to see somebody do flat 12mm modern figures well printed both sides on card and accurately laser cut out in say polycarbonate 2mm or less thick. To me that would be close to the perfect minature. By alternating side view and front view and angleing the figures it would look OK from all directions. These would be the Ultimate Wargames Figure, repsentative, easy to relate too, and no resorting to the Horrors of painting.

My one problem is my laser cutter does not have a good means of accurately and consistently locating the cutter start point to points on a piece of printedcard. The parts are themselves quite accutare but the position on the paper are a bit variable.

You mean like this? I'd say yes.

image from here
link

If there is a full size, two sided 2-D illustration and you make a little one, then the little one is a miniature. If there is a full size 3-d object, and you make a small 2-D representation of it, you have a small illustration of the actual thing. Doesn't matter if you attach it to a vertical or horizontal backing. Sticking a poster to a wall, does not convert the poster into a miniature.

Personally, representing soldiers and vehicles, etc with such a thing is not a consideration for use in my hobby.

I have no problem with someone who would use such a thing in their hobby, its just not part of mine.

Yes, unless they are 1:1 scale or larger.

You must be this tall to buy duty free.

Yes

Fusilier Dan +1

Yes.

Yes they count as miniatures.

For other materials for pre-printed flats, there is this current Kickstarter project for plexiglass ones: link

I think we need to refer this to the International Commission on Wargaming Collection Assessments for a binding ruling.

Aren't they the people who do the official count?

No.

Very much yes in my opinion.

the International Commission on Wargaming Collection Assessments

They seem to be out at the moment …

I'll get the commissioner on the phone …

OK, they're deliberating your proposal …

p.s. Sorry I couldn't find a good still shot from Steve Allen's Meeting of Minds. That would have been best.

No, painted flats are OK though

No

OK, there are a lot of "NO" votes here so why am I being chastised on another thread in a different message board for saying that I don't particularly care for paper soldiers?

They are paper soldiers … I collect soldiers and wargame with them. I have some paper soldiers in my collection.

So, yes, I count them.

Phil
The question is irrelevant to me as I don't call my figures miniatures and don't define my wargaming as 'miniature' wargaming (although the vast majority of it does involve figures or models). I generally say, soldiers, toy soldiers or figures. In my 52 years of wargaming (across 4 continents) I've never heard the term 'standees' used for paper or card soldiers. Looking it up, I don't think the Editor has the usage right in this case. But what do I know?

Now't wrong with 2D figures. In a recent article I saw some debate on the use of 2D buildings and I for one am trialing 2D trees and they do appear to be effective. However there does need to be a lot more needed for effect than a 3D tree (say cruciform types) so the jury is still out but in the end its each to there own.

We have been using 2D smoke in miniature games for many years as it is meets artistic and practicality requirements far better than any other approach we have seen.

The game is more important than the figures otr the terrain so in the end if the game works who cares if its 2D or 3D or even a mix.

A lot of role player's use paper/acrylic flats, or standee's, for their games. I use 3D mini's on a vinyl grid mat, with rooms, and mazes drawn out, using wet-erase pens. I sometimes add in full, 3D terrain features: Link1. I also play historical miniatures games, as well as gaming mass fantasy battles (Link2), and I even play wargames, using dice, and CRT's, with plastic Army Men figures and vehicles… Link3

They are all TOYS, whether they are fantasy, or historical, does not matter. The quality of the painting does not matter to anyone outside of the hobby: they all think they are just, "toys"…

In the end, people outside of our fun little (in more ways than one…) hobby, consider us to be men who play with, "toys." Take a break, Guys. This is nothing to get your undies in a twist over. Go back to playing with your toys, whether they be made of lead, some other metal alloy, paper, resin, or plastic, 3D, or 2d, or even disc-shaped pongs (when I was a poor High School student, running an RPG, we used dice in place of miniatures -- we couldn't afford them, yet). I don't care what others think of my hobbies -- I'm too busy enjoying myself to take notice. Cheers!

Sht Slag,
Intereting defintion of toys. Would Footbalers call there Balls Toys. By your efinition they most certaily are as are golf balls and golf clubs and Tennis rackets.

By your definition a Tour de France winner is just re-living his Childhood on a toy. Not sure you get many takers on that one.

Wargaming is, or can be a serious hobby, whether you like it or not.

I've used pipe cleaners for miniatures, so yes.

Jeffers,
Pipe cleaners? That sound awsome how did you use them? I only briefly used them for hedges at 6mm scale. I did not last long in 6mm the rules were still rubbish regards realism for me so took up ancients where the rules were less rubbish at the time.

Cut them into quarters, bend each length and twist, turn up at the bottom for feet, glue to a base, spray with a suitable colour and blob on as much detail as you can eg black hat, face, pack, etc. I used thick wire painted brown and silver for muskets. Horses were thin blocks of balsa (acquired cheaply from school – that's another story…) with a quarter pipe cleaner glued on top to form the head and tail. Riders were made as normal but pushed onto the horse. Wire swords and lances to taste… They were roughly 18mm.

jeffers, great, somehow we have lost that spark of ingenuity in the race for excessive detail that was never really needed for an actual game.

One thing I forgot to mention: this only really works with proper pipe cleaners – the off-white, bobbly ones. The ‘arty' pipe cleaners you get from craft shops don't work.

And avoid the ones with spiky plastic interwoven. They lacerate your fingers. Good for cacti, though!