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"Biggest Scoundrels in European History?" Topic

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Personal logo Editor in Chief Bill The Editor of TMP Fezian02 Mar 2019 9:34 p.m. PST

Who would you nominate as the biggest scoundrels in the history of Europe? Living people excluded.

Personal logo Bashytubits Supporting Member of TMP02 Mar 2019 10:10 p.m. PST

Hitler, Genghis Khan, Nero, Suleiman the magnificent, Josef Stalin.

Personal logo miniMo Supporting Member of TMP02 Mar 2019 11:01 p.m. PST

By scoundrel, do you mean the more traditional use of the word for a disreputable dishonest rogue type?

General big baddie maniacal evil overlords should be a different category.

Winston Smith03 Mar 2019 2:32 a.m. PST

Napoleon of course. Hi, Kevin! grin

Gunfreak Supporting Member of TMP03 Mar 2019 3:02 a.m. PST

jean baptiste bernadotte.

Cerdic Supporting Member of TMP03 Mar 2019 4:45 a.m. PST

Tostig Godwinson

23rdFusilier03 Mar 2019 5:24 a.m. PST

Klemens Metternich

Napoleon (both individuals who stole the crown of France)

Otto von Bismarck

Musketballs03 Mar 2019 5:30 a.m. PST

Eadric Streona springs to mind as the model of the untrustworthy underling.

Fouche is another from the same stable.

Maximilian Robespierre deserves a place, I guess.

Frothers Did It And Ran Away03 Mar 2019 5:44 a.m. PST

Napoleon III. History's best moustache.

BW195903 Mar 2019 6:55 a.m. PST

Oliver Cromwell

Personal logo miniMo Supporting Member of TMP03 Mar 2019 8:31 a.m. PST

Cardinal Richelieu

rustymusket03 Mar 2019 8:34 a.m. PST

Charles Talleyrand

Legion 403 Mar 2019 9:07 a.m. PST

One man's scoundrel is another's hero, freedom fighter, great leader, etc. It's generally about perspective and what time period is it being considered. I.e. hindsight is 20/20 …

But let there be no doubt … there were and are a some real Bleeped text Bleeped text Bleeped text out there …

Aethelflaeda was framed03 Mar 2019 9:49 a.m. PST

Goering followed by Mussolini. Goering was biggest both in girth and corruption.

Frederick Supporting Member of TMP03 Mar 2019 10:32 a.m. PST

The big question is where to start – there are so many!

From Attila the Hun to Ivan the Terrible to Otto Bismark to Joe Stalin and many more in between

Winston Smith03 Mar 2019 11:19 a.m. PST

I have always considered the term "scoundrel" to have a touch of the ridiculous about it. But that's me.
Thus Mussolini would be a scoundrel, while Stalin and Hitler are just plain Evil.
YMMV, and I'm not telling anyone how to vote.

Personal logo miniMo Supporting Member of TMP03 Mar 2019 12:07 p.m. PST

Pope Innocent III

bsrlee03 Mar 2019 12:11 p.m. PST

A real scoundrel – Colonel Thomas Blood – he stole the British Crown Jewels, was caught and then pardoned by the King.

Personal logo etotheipi Sponsoring Member of TMP03 Mar 2019 1:33 p.m. PST

John Lennon
Paul McCartney
Ringo Starr
George Harrison

Winston Smith03 Mar 2019 1:43 p.m. PST

Simon Fraser, 11th Lord Lovat

Coelacanth Supporting Member of TMP03 Mar 2019 1:57 p.m. PST

Plots have I laid, inductions dangerous…

Who else? evil grin


Personal logo PaulCollins Supporting Member of TMP03 Mar 2019 4:04 p.m. PST

Marquis de Sade

Timbo W03 Mar 2019 4:08 p.m. PST

Leslie Phillips (ding dong)

Dn Jackson03 Mar 2019 11:52 p.m. PST

Marcus Crassus. Bought the property of the losers of the civil war at a great discount. When he wanted one man's property he had him added to the proscription list.

Gone Fishing04 Mar 2019 6:29 a.m. PST

Henry VIII

Patrick R04 Mar 2019 8:38 a.m. PST

Basil Zaharoff certainly more than fits the bill.

Robert le Diable04 Jan 2020 7:35 a.m. PST

What's the opposite (?"antonym") of "scoundrel"?

Personal logo etotheipi Sponsoring Member of TMP04 Jan 2020 10:13 a.m. PST

Mensch, Stalwart, This Guy Someone upon whom you can always plan on to do the right thing even, or especially, when it is to their personal disadvantage.

Robert le Diable04 Jan 2020 10:32 a.m. PST

"Mensch" is a good one! Is it, however, "gender-specific", in a way that "scoundrel", technically at least, is not (though it does tend to be applied to men)? Anyway, I'm just hoping someone comes up with a universally acceptable word so I can start an uncharacteristically genial thread.

Personal logo etotheipi Sponsoring Member of TMP04 Jan 2020 11:23 a.m. PST

While, technically, Mensch and This Guy are gender specific as words, in the colloquial way in which it is being used here, it is not. I have heard mensch used with reference to someone of either gender. And, I have heard This Gal used as feminine specific form of This Guy.

From the Californian language, Dude, also connotes this meaning, however, in writing, you cannot convey the proper inflection to distinguish amoung the 173 different meanings of the word Dude or gender specificity during use. Californian is a spoken language.

Stalwart still works. Not a common word, then again, neither is scoundrel.

Also, you may be being way too optimistic about the Internet. For some people, raising someone up is simply an opportunity to put someone else down. Not so much on TMP, though. :)

The Last Conformist05 Jan 2020 4:55 a.m. PST

In German, "Mensch" is grammatically masculine but gender-neutral in meaning.

What did Genghiz Khan do to be scoundrel in specifically European history?

If a scoundrel is supposed to be roguish, perhaps Alcibiades belongs on the shortlist?

Personal logo etotheipi Sponsoring Member of TMP05 Jan 2020 10:29 a.m. PST

What did Genghiz Khan do to be scoundrel in specifically European history?

He died before he united the continent under his enlightened rule.

The Last Conformist06 Jan 2020 9:31 a.m. PST

He died before he united the continent under his enlightened rule.
Inconsiderate bastard.

Legion 407 Jan 2020 8:31 a.m. PST

Does Games Workshop count ? evil grin wink

Jeffers07 Jan 2020 5:14 p.m. PST

Ted Heath.

A Lot of Gaul08 Jan 2020 3:26 p.m. PST


Who else? wink


Personal logo etotheipi Sponsoring Member of TMP10 Jan 2020 3:45 p.m. PST

Who else?



Wolfhag13 Jan 2020 9:04 p.m. PST

Karl Marx. I would have put in someone else but I've already been banned from one forum.


Personal logo etotheipi Sponsoring Member of TMP14 Jan 2020 3:06 p.m. PST

Karl Marx was the greatest comedian of European history. You can throw in Friedrich Engles, the biggest prankster, who financially backed Marx to propagate his economic theories, but never implemented one of them in the textile factories he owned. You could say Engels is a scoundrel if you believe he supported Marx in order to spread ideas that would run his competitors out of business.

Robert le Diable28 Jan 2020 3:00 p.m. PST

Thanks, etotheipi, for responses, in particular that regarding "Dude" and the importance of tone, inflection, &c.; puts me in mind of the saying about all the names for "snow" (or kinds of snow).

In response to the original question, Sir Charles Trevelyan ought to be among them. Much more economical allowing a population to starve than actively exterminating it.

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