"Biggest Scoundrels in European History?" Topic

Who would you nominate as the biggest scoundrels in the history of Europe? Living people excluded.

Hitler, Genghis Khan, Nero, Suleiman the magnificent, Josef Stalin.

By scoundrel, do you mean the more traditional use of the word for a disreputable dishonest rogue type?

General big baddie maniacal evil overlords should be a different category.

Napoleon of course. Hi, Kevin!

jean baptiste bernadotte.

Tostig Godwinson

Klemens Metternich

Napoleon (both individuals who stole the crown of France)

Otto von Bismarck

Eadric Streona springs to mind as the model of the untrustworthy underling.

Fouche is another from the same stable.

Maximilian Robespierre deserves a place, I guess.

Napoleon III. History's best moustache.

Oliver Cromwell

Cardinal Richelieu

Charles Talleyrand

One man's scoundrel is another's hero, freedom fighter, great leader, etc. It's generally about perspective and what time period is it being considered. I.e. hindsight is 20/20 …

But let there be no doubt … there were and are a some real out there …

Goering followed by Mussolini. Goering was biggest both in girth and corruption.

The big question is where to start – there are so many!

From Attila the Hun to Ivan the Terrible to Otto Bismark to Joe Stalin and many more in between

I have always considered the term "scoundrel" to have a touch of the ridiculous about it. But that's me.
Thus Mussolini would be a scoundrel, while Stalin and Hitler are just plain Evil.
YMMV, and I'm not telling anyone how to vote.

Pope Innocent III

A real scoundrel – Colonel Thomas Blood – he stole the British Crown Jewels, was caught and then pardoned by the King.

John Lennon
Paul McCartney
Ringo Starr
George Harrison

Simon Fraser, 11th Lord Lovat

Who else?

Ron

Marquis de Sade

Leslie Phillips (ding dong)

Marcus Crassus. Bought the property of the losers of the civil war at a great discount. When he wanted one man's property he had him added to the proscription list.

Henry VIII

Basil Zaharoff certainly more than fits the bill.

What's the opposite (?"antonym") of "scoundrel"?

Mensch, Stalwart, This Guy – Someone upon whom you can always plan on to do the right thing even, or especially, when it is to their personal disadvantage.

"Mensch" is a good one! Is it, however, "gender-specific", in a way that "scoundrel", technically at least, is not (though it does tend to be applied to men)? Anyway, I'm just hoping someone comes up with a universally acceptable word so I can start an uncharacteristically genial thread.

While, technically, Mensch and This Guy are gender specific as words, in the colloquial way in which it is being used here, it is not. I have heard mensch used with reference to someone of either gender. And, I have heard This Gal used as feminine specific form of This Guy.

From the Californian language, Dude, also connotes this meaning, however, in writing, you cannot convey the proper inflection to distinguish amoung the 173 different meanings of the word Dude or gender specificity during use. Californian is a spoken language.

Stalwart still works. Not a common word, then again, neither is scoundrel.

Also, you may be being way too optimistic about the Internet. For some people, raising someone up is simply an opportunity to put someone else down. Not so much on TMP, though. :)

In German, "Mensch" is grammatically masculine but gender-neutral in meaning.

What did Genghiz Khan do to be scoundrel in specifically European history?

If a scoundrel is supposed to be roguish, perhaps Alcibiades belongs on the shortlist?

What did Genghiz Khan do to be scoundrel in specifically European history?

He died before he united the continent under his enlightened rule.

He died before he united the continent under his enlightened rule.

Inconsiderate bastard.

Does Games Workshop count ?

Ted Heath.

Who else?

Scott

Who else?

link

?

Karl Marx. I would have put in someone else but I've already been banned from one forum.

Wolfhag

Karl Marx was the greatest comedian of European history. You can throw in Friedrich Engles, the biggest prankster, who financially backed Marx to propagate his economic theories, but never implemented one of them in the textile factories he owned. You could say Engels is a scoundrel if you believe he supported Marx in order to spread ideas that would run his competitors out of business.

Thanks, etotheipi, for responses, in particular that regarding "Dude" and the importance of tone, inflection, &c.; puts me in mind of the saying about all the names for "snow" (or kinds of snow).

In response to the original question, Sir Charles Trevelyan ought to be among them. Much more economical allowing a population to starve than actively exterminating it.