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"The Truth about Poland and the Holocaust" Topic


12 Posts

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World War Two on the Land

1,128 hits since 23 Feb 2019
©1994-2019 Bill Armintrout
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Umpapa23 Feb 2019 1:57 p.m. PST

Interesting article written by impartial Spaniard:

link

darthfozzywig Supporting Member of TMP23 Feb 2019 2:26 p.m. PST

I don't know that being from Spain makes you impartial, but the author is correct in pointing out how Poland got mauled by the Germans and Russians both. Neither of those two wanted Poland to exist at all, and both took great pains to wipe it out.

Dn Jackson23 Feb 2019 4:24 p.m. PST

I don't think you can blame Poland for having complicity in the 'final solution.' Poland was the only nation conquered by the Germans that didn't have a government of any sort installed after the conquest. It was run totally by the Germans.

You can accuse individual Poles od collaboration, just like individual Ukrainians, French, Danes, etc. That is in no way a reflection on the Polish people, (or Ukrainians, French, Danes, etc.) as a whole.

pzivh43 Supporting Member of TMP23 Feb 2019 4:32 p.m. PST

First, it seems to me that the author is not a native English language person (or the translation is skewed), and thus the in-artful expressions that YogiBearMinis refers to.

He reacting to some calling the Nazi camps in Poland during WW2, Polish death camps, with the inference that the Poles were the people doing the killing (of Jews and others deemed undesirable by the Nazis). He makes the case that this is inaccurate, as these camps were administered by Germans (not clear

He does point out that Poland before the war was no champion of the Jewish people, but the anti-semitic activities were no worse than most other European countries (excluding Germany, of course). He does a fair job, IMO, of being honest and balancing the issues.

goragrad23 Feb 2019 5:47 p.m. PST

Decent recounting of the history and debunking of slurs that have been propagated in recent years.

Lee49423 Feb 2019 10:25 p.m. PST

IMHO Poland in general and the Polish Jewish population in particular got the worst treatment of any country in WWII. The Allies KNEW about the death camps but did nothing about them (see more on this below). The Allies started WWII over Germanys invasion of Poland yet did nothing to provide aid or assistance. They provided no help during the Warsaw Uprisung. And then they abandoned Poland to the USSR after the war … Russian had been one of the original invaders in 1939!!! And under Russian rule the Poles were not very much better off than they had been under the Nazis. So much for WWII having been fought to "save" Poland.

I'm often asked what could the Allies have done about the death camps but try and end the war as quickly as possible. Well, they could have virtually shut them down with strategic bombing. Prior to Normandy Bomber Command and the 8th Air Force conducted "targeted infrastructure" raids against the German rail net to impede reinforcement of the coming Beachhead. The camps could only function because of the railways. Germany had neither the trucks or fuel to spare to transport people to the camps using trucks alone. If the allies had knocked out the rail system supporting the camps much of the killing would have stopped. The allies could have flown shuttle missions to Russia to do just that. But is was easier to terror bomb German civilians like Dresden.

WWII was a terrible tragedy, the worst in history. And no nation was without some guilt by commission or omission. Except possibly Poland. Cheers!

Rallynow Supporting Member of TMP23 Feb 2019 10:37 p.m. PST

I think the article and Poles in general are overreacting to the term "Polish Death Camps." I think that the vast majority of people knows that it doesn't mean that the Polish Government. The Polish Government was in exiled. They had nothing to do with it.

It just refers to the location not which country was operating them. Germany controlled half of the territory formerly known as Poland. That is not to say that certain Poles didn't worked at the camps or helped the Germans gather up Jews.

Personal logo Herkybird Supporting Member of TMP24 Feb 2019 5:38 a.m. PST

The Yad Vashem museum in Israel is a good corrective to this article.

YogiBearMinis Supporting Member of TMP24 Feb 2019 6:56 a.m. PST

If this conversation is going to be kept alive, let's at least get a more learned perspective, this one by a professional historian at the national Holocaust Museum.

link

Personal logo Editor in Chief Bill The Editor of TMP Fezian24 Feb 2019 12:31 p.m. PST

Comments verging on personal attack have been removed.

Umpapa24 Feb 2019 1:13 p.m. PST

YogiBearMinis – link for a link – professional historian at the Institute Of National Remembrance

link

I think the article and Poles in general are overreacting to the term "Polish Death Camps."

I suppose You are right. It must be just the coincidence – events only from last week:

Israel asked Poland a favour to host in Warsaw anti-Iranian conference (against EU will).

After the conference prime minister of Israel Benjamin Netanyahu said in Warsaw at the international conference on security issues in the Middle East that "Poles collaborated with the Nazis".

Israeli foreign minister Israel Katz (second to Netanyahu) claimed that "the Poles imbibe antisemitism from their mothers' milk" and subsequently refused to apologise (against US calls).

Andrea Mitchell NBC News Chief Foreign Affairs correspondent, wife of Federal Reserve Chair Alan Greenspan has said that the Warsaw ghetto uprising was fought against ‘the Polish and Nazi regime.

link


Oh and article from Haaretz:
link

Neli Creoruska25 Feb 2019 6:00 a.m. PST

Why is this post still here? What does it have to do with miniature gaming or the history of warfare?

Editor, you are very inconsistent in your application of the rules.

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