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"Favorite APC?" Topic


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Action Log

19 Feb 2019 8:14 p.m. PST
by Editor in Chief Bill

  • Crossposted to Early 20th Century Discussion boardCrossposted to WWII Discussion boardCrossposted to Modern Discussion (1946 to 2008) board


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World War One
World War Two on the Land
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1,457 hits since 19 Feb 2019
©1994-2019 Bill Armintrout
Comments or corrections?

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Personal logo etotheipi Sponsoring Member of TMP24 Feb 2019 11:31 a.m. PST

The AAV-7A1 is the pinnacle of design where form follows function. After you spend about five minutes locked in this metal coffin, bobbing and swaying in the ocean where the waterline is above your head and the only exit is a small hatch in the overhead through which water is splashing in, your mental alignment is such that you would rather charge up the beach into machine gun fire rather than stay in that deathtrap for a ride back to the ship.

Steve Wilcox24 Feb 2019 11:58 a.m. PST

After you spend about five minutes locked in this metal coffin, bobbing and swaying in the ocean where the waterline is above your head and the only exit is a small hatch in the overhead through which water is splashing in, your mental alignment is such that you would rather charge up the beach into machine gun fire rather than stay in that deathtrap for a ride back to the ship.
I felt claustrophobic just reading that!

Fred Cartwright24 Feb 2019 12:22 p.m. PST

Doesn't sound much like your favourite APC either! :-)

Legion 424 Feb 2019 3:29 p.m. PST

locked in this metal coffin
We sometimes felt the same way about the M113 … evil grin

Personal logo etotheipi Sponsoring Member of TMP24 Feb 2019 4:57 p.m. PST

I've never actually ridden in an M-113, but I have always liked the design. It would be a great miniature storage facility … then you can just drive it to the con!

ScottS24 Feb 2019 7:00 p.m. PST

After you spend about five minutes locked in this metal coffin, bobbing and swaying in the ocean where the waterline is above your head and the only exit is a small hatch in the overhead through which water is splashing in, your mental alignment is such that you would rather charge up the beach into machine gun fire rather than stay in that deathtrap for a ride back to the ship.

I was a crewman on them. It was some of the most fun I've ever had, but I did occasionally feel bad for the grunts in the troop compartment.

Personal logo etotheipi Sponsoring Member of TMP25 Feb 2019 5:37 a.m. PST

I was a crewman on them.

Yeah, so you had sky and horizon. You could see the sea state and if a little wash cam over the top, you had context. :) Still, they were boxy and couldn't have been fun to drive. Were you an assault boat coxswain?

Legion 425 Feb 2019 8:18 a.m. PST

One of the "problems" with the M113's design is it's flat sides. And of course thin armor. But it is an APC, not an IFV like the M2. But even with the M2 they had to add more armor.

But with the M113s thin armor we generally always dismounted and spread out when stopped for a time. Inside the M113 would give you a modicum of protection from mortar and FA fire. Unless hit directly by indirect or direct fires from those supporting weapons. And will give you some protection from most small arms. You really had to use terrain to cover your movement. And improve your survivability.

Of course moving from cover/concealment to cover/concealment is a standard for any tactical movement. So again it comes down to terrain and situation.


We sometime would put sandbags on the front hull, and on top. As well as on the deck in the troop compartment. All which could improve your survivability. And many times you would ride on top until the situation required otherwise. As was learned in Vietnam, if inside an M113 and hit a mine or booby trap[IED] you could certain become an KIA/WIA.

The standard TTP, was pull up behind the closest cover near the OBJ. Dismount, use Fire and Maneuver, and have the .50 cal. lay down suppressive fire. And of course call in prep fire from mortars, FA, CAS, etc. on or near the OBJ. Before the assault.


I did prefer to train for a dismounted night attack. Preferably in the rain at about 03:00. You can be on top of the enemy position before they know what is happening. By using stealth, noise & light discipline, etc., when moving to the OBJ.

No prep fire of course in this case. Once the OBJ is secured the Tracks come forward and link up with dismounts. And rapidly prep for a counter attack and/or prep fires or H&I fires.

Personal logo etotheipi Sponsoring Member of TMP25 Feb 2019 12:11 p.m. PST

Nice info, Legion 4. Do you have any pics of an M-113 with sandbags on the front/side?

As this is the Lada of APCs, I think it is a good asset to have for modern "guerilla plus" actions.

Sir Able Brush Supporting Member of TMP25 Feb 2019 3:34 p.m. PST

Merkeva

ScottS25 Feb 2019 4:24 p.m. PST

Yeah, so you had sky and horizon. You could see the sea state and if a little wash cam over the top, you had context. :) Still, they were boxy and couldn't have been fun to drive. Were you an assault boat coxswain?

No, they were great fun to drive, on the land or in the water. They're surprisingly fast and maneuverable in the hands of a good driver.

No one ever used the term "assault boat coxswain," that sounds suspiciously navy-like to me; I was a Marine. We were called 'Trackers or AAV Crewmen, or you'd be called a Crewchief if you were in charge of a vehicle.

Legion 425 Feb 2019 4:45 p.m. PST

Do you have any pics of an M-113 with sandbags on the front/side?
I'll have to look. But we'd put the sandbags on the front stacking them on top of the trim van. Or open the trim van and pile them in there. We couldn't put sandbags on those flat sides. But we sometimes stacked them 2-3 high on the top of APC. Some around/along side the open top troop hatch. Or even in front of the TC cupola/hatch. Even if that could block the periscopes. However, some times, anything to give you a little bit of an edge.

wmyers25 Feb 2019 5:12 p.m. PST

SdKfz 251/D series for me, as well.

Legion 426 Feb 2019 9:11 a.m. PST

@ etotheipi pics of M113 model with sandbags. link This is the IDF version. They added a cargo racks to the sides of their M113s. But we did not have that on any US M113s AFAIK. But as you can see from the pics, how they placed them on the top of the hull. Similarly as we did. They appear to have removed the trim vane. But we opened the trim vane and placed sand bags there, sometimes.

ScoutJock26 Feb 2019 3:32 p.m. PST

My favorite APC is the one going my way.

"The worst flight beats the best ride and the worst ride beats the best walk."

- from Russ' Rules of Ranger School.

Legion 427 Feb 2019 7:04 a.m. PST

thumbs up

Personal logo miniMo Supporting Member of TMP27 Feb 2019 9:16 a.m. PST

Berliet VUDB.

Rolling in rivets style!

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