"Complete newbie looking for any/all help" Topic

Hi!

(Apologies if the formatting doesn't turn out well--it didn't look great in the preview.)

I'm a complete newbie when it comes to ACW miniatures and wargaming. (By complete newbie, I mean that I don't even understand or appreciate half of what the other "newbies" on this forum are talking about.) My first introduction to ACW miniatures was in junior high school during my school's "Activity Day." I can't remember the first battle we fought, but the second one was the Battle of Antietam. I'm not sure of the size, but I think we used 25 or 28mm metal figurines. As compared to Risk and Axis and Allies figurines, these figurines were a completely different league, and thus made a deep impression on me. At that time, I decided to get my own set of ACW figurines once I "grew up." Thirty years later, I finally am ready to do so. Unfortunately, the only information I have is based on what I did 30 years ago and a few hours of Internet searches. As such, any/all information and help will be much appreciated!

I think what I would eventually like to do is to have enough figurines for part of a battle, e.g., Antietam, Chancellorsville, or Gettysburg (Pickett's charge). I'd like to do some wargaming, but also I'd like to build a display/model of the battlefield. I have an empty room (20'x15') that I plan to devote for that purpose.

Here's where I am at and my questions:

1) It seems like the first thing to decide is what size figurines to get. Is that more important than deciding on a specific set of rules to use? If rules are more important, can you please suggest some easy-to-start-with rules?

2) Figurines: I'd like to get 25mm/28mm metal figurines as those are what I was first introduced to. But that may not be appropriate given the following factors:

a. Size: Suppose I want to reenact the fighting around the cornfield at the Battle of Antietam on battlefield that can fit within a 20'x15' room:

i. How many figurines will I need?
ii. How many figurines per battalion/regiment/brigade/division does this represent? I read somewhere that one 25mm figurine represents 40-60 actual men.
iii. What size should I get? (FWIW, anything smaller than 25mm seems too small to me and is different than what I used in junior high (which I would prefer to conform with as it made a deep impression on me).)
iv. Are 25mm and 28mm the same thing, i.e., is 25mm measured as foot to eye and 28mm foot to top of head (or something like that)?

b. Plastic or metal: From what I understand, plastic is cheaper, but lighter. I'm not sure which is easier to paint/glue/etc.

i. Are there any other pros and cons?

c. Based on your recommendation for size and plastic/metal, how much will that cost for something like the Battle of Antietam?

d. How long will it take to paint something like that?

e. Do you have a good suggestion as to a manufacturer? Perry's Miniatures seems to be the most popular/well-known.

f. Based on your manufacturer suggestion, do you have any suggestions as to where I can buy those figurines?

3) Bases: I just realized that the figurines will need to be mounted on bases. As I understand things, the number of figurines per base depends on the size of the figurine. Based on your above answer for size, how many figurines should I have per base?

4) Local resources in TX: Finally, I live in Austin, TX.

a. Do you have any suggestions as to stores where I can look at and buy figurines? The only one that I know about that *may* sell ACW figurines is Dragon's Lair.

b. Do you have any suggestions as to groups/clubs? The only one in my area appears to be Lone Star Historical Miniatures, but I'm not sure how often they meet. At this point, I'm just looking to observe and learn.

Thanks in advance for all your help. Any/all information is much appreciated!

Hi JJYATX please email me at rjdunn62@hotmail.com can help you.

JJYATX, I'll try to answer some of your questions.
28mm vs 25mm: Miniatures tend to suffer from scale creep: meaning they make them just a little bigger so they can get in more detail. Measurements have never been particularly consistent, with some manufacturers going from bottom of feet to top of head and others going from bottom of feet to eye level (some companies compromise and do both). Once you decide on a primary manufacturer, ask here who makes figures that will go with your favorite.

Perry makes very nice figures. So does The Foundry, which you'd have to order from the UK. Dixon figures tend to be smaller than Foundry, but they have some really different things, including bandsmen, so you may end up looking at them. There are several other very nice lines out there.

The Warstore, in New York, carries Perry figures. They have a Black Friday sale in November, with everything marked down about 5%. I think they had a similar summer sale last year.

Different rules use different ratios of figures to actual men. Civil War regiments were theoretically 1000+ strong, but the reality was that they often went into battle with 300 or 400 or 500 men. At 1 to 40 ratio, that 400 man regiment would need 10 figures. Johnny Reb, a ruleset frequently used for 15mm figures uses a ratio of 1 to 20, so the 400 man regiment would need 20 figures. In part, this is a matter of what looks good to you. If a 10 figure doesn't look right (to you--what I think doesn't matter, since it will be your game), look for something else.

Rules--Lots of people more knowledgeable than I will weigh in on this. However, you might visit the free rules website, which has a bunch of free rules for the American Civil War. Looking at these will give you some idea as to what level of game you are looking at,some of the mechanisms out there, and generally get your brain going. Here's a link: link

Best of luck!

Grelber

Grelber

Lone Star Historical Miniatures (LSHM) club of Texas – Lots of people in the area with miniatures and rules to expose you to a game or two

link – facebook page

TorokChar on this site handles the monthly newsletter

You will receive much help, usually from people better at this than I am, but let me suggest something. Get a good scale map of the Conrfield. Then work out what size table will fit comfortably in your room. With those two things, you can work out your ground scale--that is, roughly, how many real-life yards each inch on your table top needs to represent. Obviously, you can use rules calling for each inch to represent more, but not one in which an inch represents less, so that will help you sort things out.

The general rule is that the bigger your casting, the more real-life people he's going to have to represent, but that depends on how many ranks you put your figures in, and it's going to make a difference whether you want to represent every regiment or you'll settle for representing every Brigade.

My advise would be to look over different figures and units on the Web or in other people's armies and pick a figure scale and an average unit size you're pleased with, then use that as your starting point--only look at rules which will let your use figure scales and unit sizes you like to fight the battles you're interested in. Remember rules are cheap and expendable next to entire miniature armies, and you can always write your own, but if you build an army that just doesn't look right to you, good rules won't help.

And good luck! Post often, and ask questions whenever they come to you.

JJYATX – Charlie Torok here from Lone Star Historical Miniatures (LSHM) club – we are located throughout Texas (big group in Austin) with over 750 members. You are in the heart of Texas miniatures gaming there in Austin. We also run our yearly convention MillenniumCon (November) in Round Rock – just to the north. I live down in San Antonio and a group of us play Fire&Fury in 28mm:

There is also a group that plays Johnny Reb in 15mm:

Shoot me an e-mail and I can link you up with some local gamers and add you to our mailing list: torokc@hotmail.com

I recommend that you reach out to a local club and play a game or two before starting to buy either miniatures or rules.

My personal preferences, YMMV- Fire and Fury rules are a fun, fairly easy to learn set. I like metal figures for their satisfying heft in my hand. Dixon figs have the most character, but there's no reason you can't mix in different manufacturers, I have at least 4-5 different types

Brad Butkovich has a series of books that break battles down into smaller component sections and has various troop ratios. They include detailed maps and troop dispositions.
I have the Gettysburg edition and it is really worth reading. I believe there is one for Antietam as well.

I agree with Torokchar and Tommy20. Get to some of the clubs and play different rules and scales. Then you have an idea of some of the things that are available. I know you seem to have chosen 25/28mm. But the popularity of smaller scales are it is easier to get the massed look and do larger battles. The other big factor is cost. This is particularly true if you are going to have to paint both armies. You asked about how long will it take to paint. That depends on you, the amount of time you can devote to painting is a big factor. As you continue to paint your figures you will get better and faster too.
If you contact LSHM I am sure you will find some welcoming people and make new friends who will be more than happy to give you advice and help. We like talking to people about our hobby almost as much as doing it.
Finally having a 20"x15" room for gaming makes you the envy of many gamers out there.

Good luck and have fun.

I am from the Austin area. There are a few that play ACW in the area. I am not sure who at this point. By and large they don't appear to visit TMP. Your best bet would be the facebook groups.

The Central Texas Wargaming Grognards

Lone Star Historical Miniatures

Also, I do not believe Dragons Lair Austin will order Perry Miniatures.

There are two groups of quasi historical players that meet at Dragons Lair on Wednesday and Thursday nights. By quasi I mean we do not always play historical games. I play on Thursday nights. We have been playing Frostgrave lately.

My son and I are slowly collecting and painting Perry plastic ACW. Between the two of use we may have three 20 casting regiments painted.

As far as figures go, there are a load of manufacturers making 28mm.

Have a look at this list for a bit of inspiration…

link

If I were you, I would just play some games with the figures of others and get a feel for the period & the rules that they use. This will not cost you a big investment in $ right now.

I know you would like to use 25/28mm figures, but if you really want to create a display of one of the major battles, I would suggest you look at using some of the brilliant 10 mm size figures ( roughly 1:150 scale) and make big units, bit like these.

I would also second Coopman's suggestion of trying to get some games with other people's figures to see if you really like the period.

Thanks for all the feedback everyone. It's much appreciated. I plan to go to a local club meeting to get more information and see how different sizes look and play. Thanks!

I am also looking to get into ACW gaming. I'm thinking to get the right look for the battlefield I'd like to go with 10mm to 15mm.

Any manufacturers I should look at? Particularly want firing lines ( a reason I don't want to go with Perry….)

Keith

Joining late to the discussion. First off in youre spare time I recommend reading anything about the civil war by Bruce Catton. He is very easy to read and put a lot of flavor into his books. My favorite scales for wargaming the ACW personally are 6mm and 15mm. Baccus or Alder or Heroics and Ross or Irregular make very fine 6mm figures very affordable. When using them I recommend Altar of Freedom rules for massive battles that play quickly and it will not cost you your'e mortgage payment to procure the stuff you need to play the game.

For 15mm Peter pig look really good, I admit I have never ordered from them as they are overseas but have seen them in person and like them a lot. I currently am getting back in and am using Stone Mountain Miniatures for my 15mm ACW. There are lots of rules sets available. I prefer easier simpler rules personally. Rally round the flag is something I may jump into. Fire and fury for brigade actions or Johnny Reb for regiments.

In 6mm you have a base with about 24 figures on it representing a brigade. In Fire and fury you have 4 to 10 bases with 3 figures each on them representing a brigade. Johnny reb you have 5 bases with 2 to 6 figures each representing a regiment.

6mm and 15mm ACW are much easier to paint then 28mm, well at least a lot less time consuming. You could also go with 1/72 scale plastics if wanting to be on a budget.

For 28mm figures Perry, Foundary, Old Glory, Essex, there are a lot to choose from! The figures are more expensive but they are larger of course. The plastics you have to put together where as the metal figures usually come as a single cast. I dislike putting figures together! But most probably like them the best as they allow more diverse posing of the individual figures. If playing 28mm I would say go with Black Powder rules from Warlord games. I always tend to think of 28mm historical games as more gentlemanly affairs with good friends playing while having a glass of whiskey. Its harder and more expensive and takes more space and a lot more time to paint but nobody can deny how beautiful a 28mm army can be. But as I am not the best painter I tend to lean towards buying 28mm painted figures if I win the lottery!

How has your adventure been going finding games, playing and what scale did you eventually end up going with?

If you want to use 22mm (1/72) scale plastic figures to be relatively economical, here are a couple of suggestions.

Strelets makes several ACW sets geared to the Battle of Gettysburg. Here's an example.
link

HaT Industrie (now called Pacific Coast) is in the process of developing ACW infantry figures that look very good.
hat.com

Plastic Soldier Review will keep you up to date on 1/72 scale soldiers. They also have links to lots of manufacturers and dealers.
link