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"The Japs Were Spent By Summer Of 42" Topic


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1,002 hits since 9 Feb 2019
©1994-2019 Bill Armintrout
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Lee49409 Feb 2019 3:54 p.m. PST

Or Guadalcanal was "An Island Too Far". Lots of debate about IF the Japs had taken Midway, invaded Hawaii, or Australia or even the US West Coast. I say they were "spent" by mid '42 and NONE of those options were within their realistic reach.

Logistics. They were stretched too thin to expand more. They didn't have the fleet trains or merchant fleet to supply additional bases or invasions. Their carrier air groups were decimated … even if they had "won" Midway their air groups would have been seriously depleted.

Don't think they could have gone farther.

Thoughts?

Uparmored09 Feb 2019 4:43 p.m. PST

Did the Japanese ever field colonial units like ethnic Chinese or Philipinos? The Germans expanded their manpower by forming foreign units. Maybe believing the Yamato race were the only ones worthy instead of just Asians hampered this? The Germans were just about white people weren't they, German or not? Hmmm

Shagnasty Supporting Member of TMP09 Feb 2019 5:25 p.m. PST

The Japanese conscripted Koreans for construction and some unspeakable
duties but I don't think they fought. There was an effort to raise an Indian "liberation" government but I don't know how far that went.

torokchar Supporting Member of TMP09 Feb 2019 5:27 p.m. PST

Turning point was Stalingrad in Europe and Midway in the Pacific. After that it they had no chance at victory.

carne6809 Feb 2019 7:46 p.m. PST

The Germans were just about white people weren't they, German or not? Hmmm

'Handschar'
link

Personal logo Editor in Chief Bill The Editor of TMP Fezian09 Feb 2019 9:53 p.m. PST

Did the Japanese ever field colonial units like ethnic Chinese or Philipinos?

The Japanese official propaganda was that it was a war between the Asian races and the white races. But in practice, the Japanese treated their fellow Asians rather poorly.

slugbalancer10 Feb 2019 1:04 a.m. PST

The Japanese allowed the Indian National Army to be raised from POWs.
link

FoxtrotPapaRomeo10 Feb 2019 1:47 a.m. PST

Lots of Koreans and Taiwanese (and maybe Mongolians and Manchurians) served in the Japanese Armed Forces.

The Japanese controlled Manchukuo had Army and Navy units. The Manchukoan Imperial Army increased in size from about 111,000 troops in 1933 to an estimated strength of between 170,000220,000 soldiers at its peak in 1945, being composed of Han Chinese, Manchus, Mongols, Koreans, Japanese, and White Russians. Throughout its existence the majority of its troops were considered to be mostly unreliable by their Japanese officers and advisers, due to poor training, equipment, and morale. They were mainly involved in counterinsurgency and border security work and at the end fought the Soviets in a short campaign which the Soviets won.

A significant number of Indians fought in the Indian National Army supporting the IJA.

The Japanese puppet governments in Indonesia, Burma and the Philippines also formed units for internal police duties, but they where for the most part ineffective.

The Thai army was involved in a couple of campaigns (fighting as Thai Army, not IJA) and was sort of allied to Japan. As a result, the Japanese travelled through Thailand but never fought the Thais.

Rallynow Supporting Member of TMP10 Feb 2019 4:51 a.m. PST

From our friends at Wiki.

"In 1941, the Imperial Japanese Army had 51 divisions and various special-purpose artillery, cavalry, anti-aircraft, and armored units with a total of 1,700,000 men. At the beginning of the Second World War, most of the Japanese Army (27 divisions) was stationed in China. A further 13 divisions defended the Mongolian border, due to concerns about a possible attack by the Soviet Union. From 1942, soldiers were sent to Hong Kong (23rd Army), the Philippines (14th Army), Thailand (15th Army), Burma (15th Army), Dutch East Indies (16th Army), and Malaya (25th Army). By 1945, there were 5.5 million men in the Imperial Japanese Army."

Legion 410 Feb 2019 2:21 p.m. PST

Logistics was a concept that the IJFs never really got it seems … In many situations, they lost more to non-combat events, e.g. starvation, disease, etc., etc. Than that the Allies actually killed. And the Allies killed many of them …

Without understanding logistics the Bushido code, etc. will only get you so far. Troops need to eat, need medical support … weapons need ammo, fuel, etc.

ScottWashburn Sponsoring Member of TMP10 Feb 2019 2:54 p.m. PST

The Japanese never had any capability of invading the west coast of the US. I suppose if they had won big at Midway they could have pounded Hawaii into submission eventually, but that would have been the extent of their expansion. They did have the troops, but they didn't have the logistical train to supply them at long distances from home. Even most of their early war invasions were shoestring affairs with small forces.

mghFond10 Feb 2019 3:14 p.m. PST

Plus they had so much of their army tied down in China, a place they were never going to fully conquer.

Bill N10 Feb 2019 4:41 p.m. PST

The amount of Japanese resources devoted to China even after December 1941 is something I doubt many Americans understand.

Legion 410 Feb 2019 10:38 p.m. PST

And China is a very large place. To try to conquer and occupy.

Puddinhead Johnson11 Feb 2019 10:25 a.m. PST

I find the use of the term "Japs" offensive. Is is possible to change the headline of the post?

Wolfhag11 Feb 2019 10:58 a.m. PST

Puddinhead,
I'm offended that you are offended. Can you please delete your last post?

Wolfhag

Uparmored11 Feb 2019 11:46 a.m. PST

Interesting info on Japanese colonial units, never heard any of that before. Cool.

Legion 412 Feb 2019 7:51 a.m. PST

Wolf … thumbs up wink

Lion in the Stars12 Feb 2019 8:26 a.m. PST

There is a whole lot of empty ocean between Hawaii and the West Coast.

Japan could cover lots of the Western Pacific because the various island chains are fairly close together. Stage supplies on one island, take the next one in the chain, repeat until all islands are yours.

But the closest staging base to invade Hawaii is Midway, and that's nearly 1500 miles away. And it's some 2400 miles from Hawaii to California.

Lion in the Stars12 Feb 2019 1:57 p.m. PST

Forgot to add: the big reason the Japanese didn't grok logistics *then* is because not 60 years before they had still been in non-industrial, forage off the land, warfare.

Now, of course, they're considered the masters of industrial logistics. They invented Just-In-Time, for example.

However, the military works much better in "push-mode" logistics, where supplies are sent to a unit before the unit itself realizes they're needed!

Mobius12 Feb 2019 2:50 p.m. PST

You ought to read history before you make such an incorrect statement. The battles around Guadalcanal were in late 1942. They just found the wreck of the Hornet. How many operational fleet carriers did the US have in the south pacific in October 30 of 1942? Answer 0.

December 31 1942.
Fleet carriers: Lexington (CV-2), Yorktown (CV-5), Wasp (CV-7), and Hornet (CV-8) had been sunk.
Saratoga (CV-3) and Enterprise (CV-6) patrol between New Hebrides and the Solomons.

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