"Tank Ammo Choice in WRG Armor Rules 1950-1985" Topic

These rules seem doable for the Yom Kippur War, EXCEPT
when I get to the tank gun chart it shows different results depending on which type of ammo one chooses (ie: HEAT, HESH, Etc., etc.).
The rules are silent on what to do. Is one supposed to keep a sheet with the amount of each type of ammo each miniature tank has, then check it off as each type is used?
This would seem to be a mighty clunky thing to do in the course of game with more than a couple tanks.
Anyone have any ideas on this?

The rules assume an adequate amount of ammo of each type that you aren't expected to track ammmo use. Basically each tank is assumed to have all the types of rounds that were available for it to choose which type to fire each time you do. Not all tanks weapons will have all ammo types available so you may need to research that. I don't remember how specific the charts are in that respect since I played the WRG 1925-50 rules far more than the 1950-85. Probably haven't played either version for 30+ years.

Chris

Ammunition expenditure is ignored so there is no need to record it.

The ammo loadout of each vehicle is supposed to reflect the actual ammunition used by the main gun.

The reader is expected to do their own research of what rounds are used by each weapon. – the L11A5 120mm gun in a Chieftain for example would typically have APFSDS, HESH and canister carried.

IIRC the army lists that Bruce Rea Taylor wrote to support the rules went into detail on what ammo was allowable for each vehicke

If you're getting into particularly rare ammo types (like HVAP in WW2, or HE for a 6pdr), I'd add a troop quality test after every shot using the rare ammo. If you fail the test, that was your last round of the rare ammo.

You don't have to track ammo but you do have to know which kind was in use. I think that the Egyptians didn't have the latest Soviet ammo at the time. Instead of APDS they might have only had APBC snd APCR. The Israelis had HEAT ammo in their US tanks at the time as HEAT was going to be the ammo of the future.

Thanks. This is what I needed.

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<IIRC the army lists that Bruce Rea Taylor wrote to support the rules went into detail on what ammo was allowable for each vehicke>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

They do indeed, and here are some notes from my 1980! copy/

Merkava/Centurion/M60A1/M48: 105mm APDS, HEAT, HESH [probable that the Centurions would have had HESH, and the others HEAT*].

No mention of Super Sherman/Isherman.

T-55A: 100mm APHE, HEAT, HE.
T-62: 115mm APFSDS [or maybe APDS*], HEAT, HE.
PT-76: 76mm HEAT, HVAP, HE.
ASU-57: 57mm HVAP, HE.

*my notes.

Wherethestreets:
Thanks! That just about covers the stuff I intend to field.

You wouldn't know what SU-100s used, would you?
;-)

SU-100s are probably the same as the T-55A. Same gun or close relative.

Yes, SU-100s would have had similar ammunition as the T-55. From the late 1960s was a 100mm APDS round too, but I don't know if it was available to the Egyptians in 1973.

I thought that the 100mm had an APCR round but I haven't been able to pin it down with more citations. The penetration of one source is the same as that of the BR-412D. What they thought was the BR-412P might of been the BR-412D.

heat was not the ammo of the future but ammo that solved a problem.

During and after WWII it was noticed that penetration at range did weird things.

2pdr pen fine up to 800 then no pen till 1000 meters where it would fall off.

What was happening was the round was super heating at 800m it was hottest and brittle at 1000m it cooled down and work again.

bigger guns pushed this out further until with the 120 size it reached out to 2k where the rounds just fell apart.

this lead to choices as the guns got bigger and the ranges increased;.

heat became the long range solution as it still worked out to max range of the gun, this was consider a poor solution as heat sucked at long range accuracy.

Soviets decided that maximizing the east of use for the conscript was the way to go and the solution ended up with a 115 then 120 gun firing HVAPDS. put you sight on a tank at 2000 or less and you hit.

everything else was a filler for the few long range shot a tanker need.

US needing to kill as many tanks as possible stressed long range fires. Rangfinding was the answer.

The Israelies in 1981 deployed a long range round of a special steel which solved this. the US and Nato figured this out and bought some 10 rds for each tank in 1882 which lasted until the depleted U rounds came out. This was the west solution of the heating problem {stabilization and rangfinding to get the most out of it}

See Janes Armor and Artillery 1979 U.S. section for an Article on tanks ammo and problems.

When you read wargame rules of the 1980s you get tables for ap hvap ect that go out to 1500 or so and stop this is why.

Goggle Threat rules avb online.

Luckily the Germans and Russians didn't have the heating problems because their firing tables go out to 4000 meters.