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"Perry WOTR figures for Conquistadores and Lepanto" Topic


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1,011 hits since 23 Jan 2019
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wmyers23 Jan 2019 11:45 a.m. PST

I recently received some Wargames Foundry 28mm Conquistadores and some of the arms and armour are clearly crossovers to the Perry War of the Roses (WOTR) figures.

Which sets/figures/arms/armour would be the best to use for Conquistadores and the Battle of Lepanto era?

huevans01123 Jan 2019 4:07 p.m. PST

link

You need Spanish dudes from the 1570's. Conquistadors are from the 1520's.

TAG is bringing out a Dutch-Spanish War range that fits the correct time period.

Griefbringer24 Jan 2019 3:49 a.m. PST

For the Lepanto era, Warlord has bought a figure range that was sculpted to represent combatants around the time of the siege of Malta a few years earlier, though confusingly it has been named as "Wars of Religion 1524-1648".

link

As for converting the Perry figures into early 16th century, there is a gentleman around here (Stuart … something) who has done extensive converting with them to represent early 16th century Tudor forces (circa 1513 or so).

If you wanted to convert Perrys into conquistadors, The European Mercenaries box could work as a starting point for crossbowmen and arquebusiers. However, converting swordsmen could be trickier; the bucklers provided in this set are relatively small, and there are only a couple of swords included. Unfortunately, the other kits in the range are not much better if you want lightly armoured arms holding swords, though the Foot Knights box contains quite a number of fully armoured arms.

wmyers24 Jan 2019 8:45 a.m. PST

Thanks!

I pulled my boxes of Perry WOTR figures out of the garage and was comparing them to the Foundry figures. They will work pretty good. The heads are a wee tiny bit more normal sized (proportioned) on the Perry figures and the arms and armour matches up perfectly!

Might have to be a bit pickier about some of the helmets (research claims the sallet and cabasset were the most common helmet types). However, sources claimed that other European nations had soldiers/sailors accompany the Spanish (such as Irish). Columbus was Italian, so it would not be far fetched to guess other Italians accompanied Spanish as well.

Before and probably because of the Henry VIII's actions there may well have been English accompanying as well, especially later mid century.

Doing a wee bit of research I found a reference to crossbows being decommissioned in the regular forces in Spain and their being sent to the New World for use by the forces there.

I am not sure of straight/long bow usage of Spanish troops, however. If the English were still using them in 1500, could not Spanish also be using them at that time? (I know it is far more of a specialized lengthy training as opposed to a crossbow.)

Also, pike usage. I am not sure of Spanish use of pikes but it does make sense, IF enough troops are present.

From the short research I've done, sources have claimed full body armour was often used and earlier troops used chain later changing to padded but plate, if it could be afforded, was the ideal. Battles were fought in the open so the Spanish could use strategies and tactics that worked for their arms and armour.

I am going to suspect shields were used by troops not in plate (as opposed to plate wearing soldiers' "overkill").

I will check out the Warlord figures.

Griefbringer24 Jan 2019 9:09 a.m. PST

Regarding the Perry models, they make optional metal heads for the early 16th century, though these are wearing hats rather than helmets:

link

Another issue with heads for the early 16th century Spanish conquistadors is that beards were not uncommon, where as none of the plastic Perry heads has one.

And if you are keen on converting the Perry figures into swordsmen, there are some sword arms in cloth armour in the Agincourt to Orleans infantry sets that might work with the cloth armour bodies from the 1450-1500 range.

I am not sure of straight/long bow usage of Spanish troops, however. If the English were still using them in 1500, could not Spanish also be using them at that time?

English maintained the use of longbows almost to the end of 16th century, but they are exception. Spanish infantry in the beginning of 16th century used mainly crossbows and arquebusses as their missile weapons. In Europe the crossbow fell quickly out of use, but in colonies it remained use until mid-century.

Also, pike usage. I am not sure of Spanish use of pikes but it does make sense, IF enough troops are present.

In the European battlefields the Spanish used pikes in large numbers. However, they were not usually employed in the colonies against the natives (who did not have cavalry), though they were used in the later civil wars that took place amongst the conquistadors.

wmyers24 Jan 2019 10:59 a.m. PST

Thank you! Now I'm going to have to go through my Perry Agincourt boxes and see. (too many figures, too many historical era interests, never enough time …)

Griefbringer25 Jan 2019 2:55 a.m. PST

Regarding the Perry Agincourt to Orleans sprues, there should be:

- On English archer sprue: one cloth armour right arm with straight sword, one cloth armour right arm with small axe, one left arm in cloth armour raised to hold a shield (notice the peculiar archer wrist cover on this one).

- On French infantry sprue: one unarmoured right arm with straight sword (and matching left arm for holding shield), one cloth armour right arm with curved sword (and matching left arm for holding shield).

- On English and French foot knight sprues both: armoured right arm with sword and matching left arm. However, this armour would be rather old-fashioned a hundred years later, and these sprues come with so few arms that I would not recommend nicking pieces from them.

- Cavalry sprue: just received my first today, haven't had time to check them through.


Speaking of cavalry sets, if you have got the WotR ones then there are also a few swords on those: the light cavalry sprue has one sword wielding arm, while the mounted men-at-arms sprue has two sword-wielding hands that can go with any of the included arms.

wmyers25 Jan 2019 10:17 p.m. PST

I have the light cavalry. I just looked and there is one sword arm (armoured with plate). There are a couple arms with crossbows. A couple with long bows (still don't know if the Spanish used these at all), and 4with lances (long spears).

I don't have the armoured cavalry. I'll have to check if the Spanish used gothic fluted armour as much as that set has. I suppose if one is gaming perfect accuracy, while desired, isn't that necessary …

Charlie26 Jan 2019 9:31 a.m. PST

The WOTR heavy cavalry set only has ONE body in gothic fluted armour (I wish there were more!)
The other bodies are…
-Italian armour (smooth and rounded)
-English / Flemish armour (looks a bit more gothic, but actually the design is uniquely English / Flemish)
-Livery coated body, with what looks like Italian armour underneath.

The Agincourt era armour would look very out of date for your purposes, even the arms for my taste (but of course others may not be so picky). In particular the Agincourt era arms have very distinctive gauntlets that would be out of date by the second half of the 15th century, let alone the early 16th century.
HOWEVER I recently was thinking to myself those gauntlets would be very easy to turn into soft gloves with a little green stuff….

wmyers26 Jan 2019 8:30 p.m. PST

I was thinking of 1520ish as I have a lot of Aztecs as well. So, I was thinking being in the New World, armour from the latter 1400's would not be out of place, given the factors of the time it took to travel and the potential of the amount of men already in Cuba venturing to the mainland and possibly many of the "adventurers" may not have had the money to buy the latest most fashionable armour.

Then, given the numbers of Irish that participated, some of their armour may have been very different in comparison.

I have not been able to find a lot of English sources, yet. The two Osprey's do not have a lot on the early period exclusively.

I would suspect there may be a lot more Spanish language sources.

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