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"Wurttemberg cavalry facing colors?" Topic


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750 hits since 20 Jan 2019
©1994-2019 Bill Armintrout
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bobspruster20 Jan 2019 1:30 p.m. PST

I have a couple of boxes of HaT Wurttemberg cavalry to paint. I plan to use LaSalle for rules, so I have 3 small units of mounted jagers to paint. Did Wurttemberg have 3 regiments of these guys? And their facing colors were….?

Mike Petro20 Jan 2019 1:35 p.m. PST

link

Pretty much all the info on Wurttemberg you would ever need.

Marc the plastics fan20 Jan 2019 1:57 p.m. PST

Crikey. That is a resource and a half

bobspruster20 Jan 2019 2:34 p.m. PST

Wow! Awesome resource, man. I owe you a milkshake. Thanks very much, Bob

Zippee21 Jan 2019 7:15 a.m. PST

Only 2 Jager zu Pferd regiments I'm afraid

Most of that info is still valid – little has changed in my research over the years.

bobspruster21 Jan 2019 4:16 p.m. PST

Yup, I saw that there were only two regiments, which means 2 "big" units rather than 3 small. I'm sure Mr. Mustafa would be all right with it.

bobspruster21 Jan 2019 4:17 p.m. PST

And an awesome article, btw!

Prince of Essling22 Jan 2019 2:56 a.m. PST

Histofig illustrations:

picture
picture

Prince of Essling22 Jan 2019 5:38 a.m. PST

Also refer to Leo Ignaz von Stadlinger's excellent drawings (of the whole army): link

Zippee23 Jan 2019 4:43 a.m. PST

I guess much depends on the date you're fielding the army for. In the later period the "third smaller unit" might be the dragoon regiment. My interest is firmly in the pre 1812 period so I definitely think of the cavalry arm being 2 regiments of Chevaux Leger and 2 regiments of Jager zu Pferd but the designation of units is far more complex than that!

BTW I've never understood that reference in Histofig plate Wu05 fig 3

It purports to be Regt Prinz Adam in 1814. But that unit is the 2nd Leib Chevaux Leger's new title when it changed to Regt #4 Jager Kavallerie Prinz Adam in 1813. (To add confusion the 1st Regt was briefly Prinz Adam in 1812 but became Leib in 1813). As far as I know the uniform jackets were still blue not green (they certainly received the new helmet as did the 1st Regt and both remained uniformly discrete from the other 3 regiments)

The old 1st Chevaux Leger (briefly Herzog Heinrich in 1807 and Prinz Adam in 1812) became Regt #1 Leib Jager Kavallerie in 1813, the Herzog Louis Jager zu Pferd became Regt #3 Jager Kavallerie Herzog Louis in 1811 and the Konig Jager zu Pferd became Regt #4 Jager Kavallerie Konig in 1811 and then Regt #5 Jager Kavallerie in 1813

The 'other' cavalry regiment was the Kronprinz Dragoons raised during and after the 1809 campaign. It was designated as Regt #5 in 1811 and then changed to Regt #3 Dragoon Kavallerie Kronprinz in 1813 and again to Regt #3 Jager Kavallerie Kronprinz in 1815.

Essentially the army was expanded following joining the Confederation in 1806, which really meant adding 2nd battalions to the musketeer regiments and increasing the squadron count in the 4 cavalry regiments. 1809 saw the addition of the 8th musketeer regiment and the dragoon regiment mainly due to activities in the Tyrol.

Uniforms were changed wholesale in 1806, there was a further sweeping change in 1811 when inhaber titles were purged (except for the royal family), coats lost the half-lapel look and plumes were abolished.

The final change was in 1812/13 with the replacement of helmets and updating of old shakos for a new standardised shako throughout (except for cavalry regiments #1 and #3 (the old Chevaux Legers) which received a new style helmet in 1813.

There were expansions in the Royal and Household Guard as well mirroring this but those units never saw the field (except for the artillery the senior companies of both being 'Guard' or 'Household' by nomenclature for prestige purposes)

Prince of Essling23 Jan 2019 7:37 a.m. PST

According to "Das Koniglich Wurttembergische Heer 1806-1871" by Herbert Hahn publisher Deutsche Gesellschaft fur Heereskunde 1994 the cavalry changes were (I will ignore prior to 1811 unless others want the evolution):

Kavallerie-Regiment Nr 1 Chevalegers Prinz Adam
1813 Leib Kavallerie-Regiment Nr 1

Kavallerie-Regiment Nr 2 Leibchevaulegers
1813 Kavallerie-Regiment Nr 4 Jager-Regiment zu Pferd Prinz Adam

Kavallerie-Regiment Nr 3 Jager-Regiment zu Pferd Herzog Louis
1813 Kavallerie-Regiment Nr 2 Jager-Regiment zu Pferd Herzog Louis

Kavallerie-Regiment Nr 4 Jager-Regiment zu Pferd Konig
1813 Kavallerie-Regiment Nr 5 Jager-Regiment zu Pferd

Kavallerie-Regiment Nr 5 Dragoner Kronprinz
1813 Kavallerie-Regiment Nr 3 Dragoner Kronprinz

Zippee23 Jan 2019 8:05 a.m. PST

I think (except my omitting the final evolution of Herzog Louis from #3 to #2 in 1813) that's the same evolution.

Nomenclature is different however, my references [many and several] definitely used the form Jager Kavallerie Regt ## and omitted the zu Pferd from 1813 (the dragoons following suit in 1815 – which you don't cite, is that because you've curtailed at 1813 or because DKW doesn't agree?) but translation and nomenclature precision is often questionable.

I do note however that you don't include the 1st Regt as Jager in 1813 whilst my notes use the same 'Jager kavallerie' nomenclature for all. So that is interesting in that it indicates that 2nd CL now 4th JzP was folded into the Jager class whilst 1st remains somehow distinct. I'd understood that both the old CL regiments remained distinct.

My notes definitely indicate #1 and #4 received new helmets not shakos in 1813 which would seem odd if #4 was now another jager regiment. That may be an error.

if you check the link above I give the evolution as understood by me – if DKW disagrees with the earlier evolution I for one would appreciate the evolution prior to 1811 (I basically lose interest in 1811 :))

Prince of Essling23 Jan 2019 2:27 p.m. PST

@Zippee

Full evolution as shown in "Das Koniglich Wurttembergische Heer 1806-1871"as requested and sincere apologies as was too speedy with cut and paste of "Jager-Regiment zu Pferd" when should have used just Jager in a number of instances!!!

Kavallerie-Regiment Nr 1 Chevalegers Herzog Henrich is listed as follows:
1798 Reiter-Regiment
1802 Chevaulegers-Regiment
1805 Vacant Chevaulegers-Regiment
1807 Chevalegers-Regiment Herzog Henrich
1811 Kavallerie-Regiment Nr 1 Chevalegers Prinz Adam
1813 Leib Kavallerie-Regiment Nr 1
1816 Leib Kavallerie-Regiment
1817 1. Reiter-Regiment

Kavallerie-Regiment Nr 2 Leibchevaulegers evolution:
1805 Leib-Regiment Chevaulegers
1811 Kavallerie-Regiment Nr 2 Leibchevaulegers
1813 Kavallerie-Regiment Nr 4 Jager Prinz Adam
1816 Kavallerie-Regiment Nr 4
1817 4. Reiter-Regiment

Kavallerie-Regiment Nr 3 Jager-Regiment zu Pferd Herzog Louis evolution:
1805 Leichtes Jager-Regiment zu Pferd Prinz Paul
1807 Jager-Regiment zu Pferd Prinz Paul
1811 Kavallerie-Regiment Nr 3 Jager-Regiment zu Pferd Herzog Louis
1813 Kavallerie-Regiment Nr 2 Jager Herzog Louis
1816 Kavallerie-Regiment Nr 2
1817 2. Reiter-Regiment

Kavallerie-Regiment Nr 4 Jager Konig evolution:
1806 Jager-Regiment zu Pferd Konig
1811 Kavallerie-Regiment Nr 4 Jager-Regiment zu Pferd Konig
1813 Kavallerie-Regiment Nr 5 Jager
1816 dissolved

Dragoner-Regiment evolution:
1809 Dragoner-Regiment Kronprinz
1811 Kavallerie-Regiment Nr 5 Dragoner Kronprinz
1813 Kavallerie-Regiment Nr 3 Dragoner Kronprinz
1815 Jager-Regiment zu Pferd Nr 3 Kronprinz
1816 Kavallerie-Regiment Nr 3
1817 3. Reiter-Regiment

Zippee24 Jan 2019 4:23 a.m. PST

Many thanks for that Prince Essling

#1 that follows my secondary sources, except I have it noted as 'vacant' in 1811, Prinz Adam in 1812 – most changes happen in 1811 so DKW is probably right on that.

#2 agreed. I will need to look into the uniform question a bit more though, particularly I need to check the citation that they were issued a new *helmet* in 1813, seems odd if it was now jager and re-uniformed in green.

#3 interesting, I have it noted as Herzog Louis in 1807 – you note a change of title dropping the 'leichtes'. Sounds like a copyist error to me in the secondary sources.

#4 & 5th the secondary sources agree with DKW

Prince of Essling24 Jan 2019 7:04 a.m. PST

From Heers und Tradition (will dig out later "Das Koniglich Wurttembergische Heer 1806-1871" and see what it has to say):

picture

Zippee25 Jan 2019 3:59 a.m. PST

thanks for that

It seems pretty clear that only the leib kavallerie retained it's visible identity following the rebuild in 1813/14

The notation I have regarding the new helmet issued to regt #4 (ex #2) must be an error

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