"Genuine American Food" Topic

I was listening to an eminent culinary expert who made the claim that Hamburgers, Pizza and French Fries are all examples of genuine American food. Do you agree?

Yes – they are all originally from the USA
Yes for Hamburgers and French Fries but not Pizza (Italy)
Yes for French Fries and Pizza but not Hamburgers (Germany)
Yes for Pizza and Hamburgers but not French Fries (err…France)
Yes for Hamburgers only
Yes for French Fries only
Yes for Pizza only
No – they are all foreign foods brought to the USA from Europe
Not a wargamer

Well I guess it depends on whether you allow for evolution and changes in the nature of foods, but French Fries (or, if you believe the culinary historians, Belgium Fries) are avidly claimed by both France and Belgium and are made there by the bucket (and made very well)

Pizza was without question created in Italy – although much popularized in the USA

Now for hamburgers the situation is more murky given the many people who claimed to have created them – but one fact is, they are essentially all Americans (and one is from Hamburg, New York) – so I would say hamburgers are very genuine American food

We're not even mentioning chop suey?

I think there's a valid distinction between "genuine American food" because it originated here, which would at least include maize, popcorn, chocolate, coffee, chili and turkey, depending on which "America" we're talking about, and "genuine American food" because it's widely available here and an American who won't eat them is considered a little odd.

I'd say everything on 20th Maine's list in genuine American food. But as for originating here--well, very few people consuming them here could pass that test. Am I not American because my ancestors came from Europe? So why is the test different for my hamburger?

The vast majority of the US thinks Dominoes serves Pizza, so much for Pizza…

The original question -- are they examples of genuine American food -- is a good one for a poll, because it inquires of our opinions about what constitutes American cuisine.

The answer choices, however, are all fact-based, and are not the solicitation of opinions. As such, they are not appropriate poll material. I recommend the following as a poll:

*******************
Are hamburgers, French fries, and pizza examples of American food?

Yes to all three
Hamburgers only
French fries only
Pizza only
Hamburgers and French fries but not pizza
French fries and pizza but not hamburgers
Hamburgers and pizza but not French fries
Not a wargamer
*******************

Navajo Tacos.

Where I live, you can't drive a 1/2 mile or less and not run into a pizza joint or Italian eatery, etc.

If they are American food, they are equally British food, French food and German food. Why not give up and call them just food ?

Some random thoughts on this subject:

My late father commented that the worst pizza that he ever had was in Naples, Italy.

All three foods mentioned in the original post are pretty good for wargaming, as they can be eaten with the hands, but all three tend to be a little greasy, so you have to be sure to wipe your fingertips with a napkin before you resume touching miniatures or, worse, paper counters.

The classic American dish of spaghetti and meatballs is believed to have originated in China. Marco Polo brought the idea back to Italy, and Christopher Columbus took it with him to the New World, where he invented tomato sauce, which elevated the dish to its current epicurean level.

Coffee originated in Yemen, but is today the national drink of the United States. Irish coffee is a classic American alcoholic drink; it was not known in Ireland until it was brought there from America after the Great Potato Famine.

The burrito was invented the United States, but is really just a modification of the taco (roll it up instead of fold it over). Mexico adopted the burrito and kept the American name. In the Middle East, it's called shawarma.

I think of American food more as a fusion. Does America have fries? Sure but they're not Belgian Frites. Then you have pizza: it's definitely not Neapolitan nor is it Sicilian. Roman pizza is close but America likes a top loaded monstrosity . The top is meant to be the condiment people. Embrace the crust.

I would point out that they are properly "frenched fried" potatoes. "frenched"= cut into thin strips

I think the best fries I ever had were from a little shop near Haarlem station. With mayonnaise, of course.

Geez… what about hot dogs?? And here in the south Bar-b-que is the winner, hands down.

The only genuine American foods are various native born game(that is not available other places) corn based foods, and if you include Latin America you have stuff like guniea pigs.

Mmmmmm…… guinea pig….

I like cuy. It's better than just another meat on a stick (you don't have to get it on a stick).

The only genuine American foods are

tomatoes, which didn't get to Europe until the 16th century.

Sure they did, in Return of the king. Denathor eats tomatoes, and lotr is supposedly a mythology of Britian. So if pre history Britian had tomatoes than all of Europe had too.

Clambakes, baby!

Pumpkins are Doodle Food.

Eric

Fried chicken and bbq is 100% American. A fascinating history.

Grits. Collard greens. Fried okra.

Can you tell I'm originally a Southerner?

Roasted turkey breast with corn pudding, sweet potato casserole, and cranberry sauce. Now that's American, baby!

Rob

One of my greatest struggles in life is an inordinate love of food. I love Greek, Italian, Spanish food, as well of much of that from Asia and the rest of the world. And there's nothing quite like a good pub meal.

Having admitted all that, I do think there are several areas in which we Americans excel:

1.) hamburgers – no one else does them properly

2.) as Mister Tibbles says, BBQ, especially in the South and West of these united states

3.) Southern food is the best regional cuisine in the US by a country mile, followed, after that mile, by the Southwest

4.) a good American fruit pie is a thing of extraordinary sublimity – and I've not tasted their like anywhere else in the world

But this doesn't keep me from really looking forward to our next Indian meal. It is an embarrassment of riches!

Why aren't potato chips listed?

They're definitely American.

Soda-pop of your favorite varieties?

Clam Chowdah?

From Wiki, the history of the hamburger and French Fries.

link

link

Seems hamburgers are all American and French Fries may have originated in Belgium. Although Jefferson is said to have served them in the White House.

According to Wiki, Pizza originated in Italy.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pizza

These foods may have "originated" elsewhere but have been improved on in America…IMHO

When an article uses the word "pizza" and it is talking about America, context would say that it is referring to American pizza (as noted above, distinct from Italizn pizza) just like if a commentator uses the word "football" on a rugby program, by context, you know they mean rugby football and not association football or gridiron football.

That said, American pizza is a quintessentially American dish, as opposed to (new England) clam chodah (vice Manhattan clam chowder), which is a regional dish or chop suey (invented in America by a Chinese-American restaurateur as something more to the American taste than many other traditional Chinese dishes) which is neither widely known nor eaten.

Lest you think Italian and American are the only tow distinct styles of pizza – link

My friends who have been to Italy have told me that spaghetti and meatballs there is a little different than in the USA. Like many times there was no meatballs and just a little sauce.

Italian and American are the only tow distinct styles of pizza

Much of what Americans call "pizza" is "Not" … And it varies by location. I.e. by state sometimes.

One of my greatest struggles in life is an inordinate love of food.

And that is my situation as well …

Tamales.

Much of what Americans call "pizza" is "Not" … And it varies by location.

That's the same argument as saying association football (soccer, football, futbol, or a dozen other names as your preference) "isn't" because they don't have an unlimited number of players like they did in the 10th Century.

American pizza is a fundamentally different take on pizza than Italian pizza or Japanese pizza. American pizza is much more like an open face stromboli than an Italian pizza.

Guinea pig? Yes, and so is dog. Chihuahuas were bred as food. So, Pepe the Taco Bell spokesdog? He would have been the stuffing on the taco.

The Indios were shocked when the Spaniards brought wardogs with them (mastiffs and greyhounds – which they used to hunt the Indios) as they had never seen dogs that big before.

American pizza is a fundamentally different take on pizza than Italian pizza

Yes, I know some of the old Italians that came over from the old country. All have long passed since my youth. Would not call what Pizza Hut, Dominos, etc. "real" pizza" !

I have a couple dozen colleagues and friends in Italy (natives and transplants from neighbouring countries) who don't have a problem calling American pizza, "pizza". Just as a variant based on local esthetics.

Same goes for Japanese pizza. Is that not pizza either? You would have a hard time finding pizza in Italy with mayonnaise and corn on it and make sure you ask in Japan or you won't get pizza without them.

Pizza Hut and Domino's represent American pizza about as well as McDonald's and Burger King represent the hamburger. And I like BK cheeseburgers. But I also recognize that they are substantially different than bringing some fresh ground beef home from the abattoir next farm over, kneading in some egg and onion, then throwing them on the grill to be timed when the buns come out of the oven.

I have a couple dozen colleagues and friends in Italy (natives and transplants from neighbouring countries) who don't have a problem calling American pizza, "pizza". Just as a variant based on local esthetics.

Yes I can see that … But Pineapple & Ham, BBQ Chicken, etc. is good but really shouldn't be called pizza.

I even have had Pierogi pizza … was not bad ! But I have had Italian Egg rolls too ! Again not bad !

Where I live probably the 2nd largest ethnicity is Eastern Europeans.

I think the mixing of ethnic food types is called something like Food Fusion. I like it ! E.g. they put everything in Tacos and on pizza !

I had an all-American breakfast at home today: sweet Chinese pork pastry, cranberry bagel with cream cheese, maté, blended black tea (Pekoe, I think), banana, and blackberries.

But Pineapple & Ham, BBQ Chicken, etc. is good but really shouldn't be called pizza.

…

they put everything in Tacos and on pizza!

I agree with the "fusion" concept, so, like you say, lots of things are called by names that really indicate a tenuous connection to a basic abstract idea – I would add burritos to your list.

I recently had a discussion with a colleague that based on his ethnic background, without beans and rice, PB&J in a flour tortilla is not a "burrito". Then another said, based on his ethnic background (from a different part of Mexico) rice made it a "burRICO" – "rico" (REE-ko) meaning rich, as in you're rich if you have beans and rice together in one meal.

This lines up with the way I cook … glance at a recipe for a main ingredient, grab a few of whatever ingredients you have and go at it. That is quintessentially American.

Oh, and with an Eastern European mother, please don't bring up the discussion of what constitutes perogi with her, me, or DOM. Unless you want a lesson. ;)

I do love to go to Greek Fests in the summer as well as have been to Ukrainian, Polish and Serb fests. And of course Italian Fests !

I do like a good pierogi or 3 or 4 or 5 !!

We have a number of Hispanic and Asian eateries here too !!!

I think in my old age I'll add eating out as another hobby !