"Israel uses civilian airlines as cover to bomb Syria" Topic

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Would LOVE to hear some of you try and explain and justify this!

Of course you can say that the news story is entirely made up. That wouldn't be surprising if that is your response to this. Of course our major corporate media always tells the truth and gives full context to wars, but our enemy's media always lies right? Yeah, right. What is more likely however is that this news story gives the full and honest context of what Israel is doing and the underhanded and illegal tactics they use to do it.

Oh, and this was on Christmas Day. That's like putting a cherry on top of the Sundae is it not?

Good luck ever hearing anything about this incident on MSNBC, CBS, ABC, or CNBC. Our "free media". Yeah.

So like I said – I'll sit back and let you all explain to me how this isn't flat out aggression/terrorism against a sovereign nation – trying to confuse Syrian air defense forces by using civilian airlines as cover.

Doesn't that sound like…something…a…cowardly terrorist group would do? Doesn't that sound like something one of our evil enemies would do? No, this was actually an ally, the one we support above all others. Oops.

Please be much more careful and thorough in the future when making comments, analyzing and making assertions about what you think you know is happening in the world between the super powers. And please be much, much careful about how you define what a "terrorist is".

Enough said.

At least the Israelis aren't shooting the airliners down…..
Strikes against Iranian and terrorist targets in Syria, forces that swear on the destruction of Israel, are OK by me…….no handwringing here!!

Meh…hard to work up a lather on this one.

Christmas Day? Neither Israeli Jews, nor Syrian Moslems celebrate this holy day. Very parochial reporting.

Israeli news site Nziv cited Syrian sources as saying that the attack was conducted… to target a warehouse containing Iranian Fajr-5 missiles being stored by the Iran-backed Shiite Muslim Hezbollah movement.

source: NewsWeek link

Senior Hezbollah figures boarding a plane bound for Iran were wounded during the attack, according to security sources who spoke to Newsweek. The airstrike was conducted just minutes after they had boarded the aircraft.

source: The Daily Mail link

All the of the above items are missing from the MintPress News article cited in the OP.
All of the above were valid targets and in the later case in a very tight window of opportunity

MintPress has a reputation for being unreliable:

When asked about the MintPress News story, Åke Sellström, the chief U.N. weapons inspector in Syria remarked, "they are famous for 1001 Arabian Nights stories!"

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The only source for the story about the civilian airliners is the Russian Defense Ministry. Hmmm…

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Oh, and this was on Christmas Day. That's like putting a cherry on top of the Sundae is it not?

Just another day to the both sides involved. Theres a lot of people in this world who don't think of December 25th as anything but another box on the calender. Christmas is just the day I forget the grocery store is closed and wind up eating cereal for dinner…

Do the neo-soviets have a $.50 USD army as well as China?

you might want to follow a course on terrorism. The first thing they do in general is to provide a definition of terrorism.

That will help lifting some of the confusion.

an additional one on media and information sources might help as well.

Israel is doing and the underhanded and illegal tactics they use to do it. War is hell!

We had plans to pack 747's with rotary cruise missile launchers for stand-off bombardment.

Don't sub,marines use civilian ships as cover?

Don't sub,marines use civilian ships as cover?

Sometimes.

Requires some scary-good driving, though.

Boo hoo. They used other planes to mask their path. I am sure no other country has ever done that at all. Besides, I agree with the editor when he said the source is know to be unreliable. I don't think any of us would be upset if we had a country close to our borders that is unhinged as Syria is. Don't blame Israel at all if it is true. They have warned the usual suspects in the Mideast numerous times.

Perhaps the Syrians should choose their friends and allies more wisely, so Israel doesn't have to attack.

So we're using the Russian Ministry of Defence as a reliable source of information now?!

Why can't Israel play dirty too? All is fair in war and war, is it not? Why are we holding Israel, renowned for ruthlessness in its military and intelligence agencies, be held to such a high moral standard? If any nation "fights fire with fire," it's the Zion state. And this isn't the first time Israel used this "underhanded" tactic, nor will it likely be the last:

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Seems like this is an attempt by the OP to interject politics into the thread. It violates the spirit of allowing these discussions here as long as they relate to warfare and our miniatures. The OP is just on a rant.

Oh, and this was on Christmas Day. That's like putting a cherry on top of the Sundae is it not?

Didn't George Washington cross the Delaware in the darkness of an early Christmas morning to sneak up and kill the enemy?

How unsporting and uncivilized……….

"What is more likely however is that this news story gives the full and honest context of what Israel is doing and the underhanded and illegal tactics they use to do it."

Why, exactly, is it 'more likely' that this story is true? I've never heard of Mint Press before today.

Doesn't bother me one bit.

No need at all to explain and justify something from a VERY questionable source. This is a prime example of social media being used to spread lies. Remember, the best lie is based in the truth. Throw in a few facts and the lies lead through.

Heck, I've hit the point where I try to avoid ANY article that's not tied to a recognized, accepted, legitimate news source, which means one of the major news outlets. At least they make an effort to vet their facts and sources.

If it was anybody BUT Israel we'd be asking how to game this – how to account for using another plane as cover, what rules are best for this, what scale is best, and people would be asking "who has airliners in 1/300" and all that. ;(

The intent of the OP is to illustrate that there are no true good guys in the world, only actors who operate in various shades of gray.

So we should all get off our moral high horses whenever we engage in discussions on this board about who's good and who's bad lest we become hypocrites ourselves.

28mm…you're correct, but the OP did NOT post the link to illustrate this debate, he specifically asked for people to "explain and justify" Israeli actions based on a very questionable source.

And, yes, everybody and every nation can fail to live up to its values, but there are still good guys who work hard to live up to those values even if occasional mistakes are made. If everything is based on relativism, then force is the only thing to make right.

I don't need to be perfect to condemn a pedophile, and it certainly doesn't make me a hypocrite. Not everything is relative, or even shades of gray.

Rules are out the window in war. To win you have to do whatever it takes.

Bad source.

But out of curiosity, would resolutions against using human shields cover this sort of thing? It seems sort of borderline (similar to submarines using civilian ships for stealth) because if I understand the mechanics correctly it is a bit different from hiding military assets *in* protected structures or amongst civilians held at gunpoint. It seems more analogous to "camoflauging" a military site by making it look generic except on close inspection.

I trying to figure out this debate. What does it matter if the action is justified? Israel is at war with Syria. They want to take out the Assad regime. They tried to do so by a proxy war. They failed. They tried another proxy, but failed.

Now they are launching direct attacks to try and salvage something from their failure. The attacks are very one-sided because Syria cannot respond. Any response will either fail or be returned with serious escalation from Israel's allies.

They are simply taking advantage of their superior political and technological position. That is what one does to win a war and kill one's enemies. They have done a horrible job, though to be fair… this strategy wasn't started by their current administration.

Joe Collins

For having recently read quite a bit about the middle east dynamics, Iran is trying to step up its presence in the Mediterranean sea and sees Israel as one of its biggest competitor. They provide the Hezbollah with tactical and strategic weapons, provide them with training and advisors.

Israel is not happy about this build up from a country that has vowed to destroy the "Zionist entity" and their elite military partners who have been a very tough opponent to the Idf as well as showering civilian targets with missiles.

There are no real prospect of regional peace but everyone is wondering when and how the next conflagration will flare up. Under these conditions, what do people exactly expect?

Some generous minds can still dress it up as a fight for "justice and rights", the "meanies and bullies' versus the "Freedom warriors", the "legitimate governments vs Imperialists". It is your right, perfectly so.

or one can look at this more simply as Regional Geopolitics.

Israel has pretty much its own interests, and so far,in terms of convergence of interests and values, I feel more comfortable we train with Israelis rather than Hezbollah, the Syrian or Iranian army.

If you wish the opposite, this is perfectly fine and your absolute right. Good for you.

This book about Israel's (possible) future wars provides some light:
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I am not aware of an Arab/Persian perspective that is playing a different tune than victimization. Would be interesting to read it for the sake of source diversity.

"Israel is at war with Syria. They want to take out the Assad regime".

No, they are not. If they wanted that done, it could be accomplished in the next 20 minutes, I suspect, AND, yet, Assad lives.

They do dislike his policies, especially those supporting the Iranians and the terrorist orgs both Syria and Iran supply with rockets, missiles, and other weaponry.

The Russians don't follow the rules, nor do the Syrians, Iranians, or their terrorist allies/proxies, so why should Israel?

Errr… No, they can't take out Assad.

The Israelis aren't as good as you think they are…

That being said… the Syrians are worse than you think they are… I would bet good money that you think they are pretty bad.

The Israelis want the Syrian and now Iranian influence in Lebanon to end.

The problem is that the Israelis also hate the Lebanese Christians, the only alternative.

The whole thing is perhaps unsolvable. Netanyahu has been unable to extricate Israel from the mess. Though he has tried.

The only real solution would be a strong Russian backed Assad stabilizing the country and then offering peace to the Israelis.

This would probably never happen… and if it did, there is little chance that Israel would accept peace from the last Fascist dictator.

Ugh…

The Lebanese and Syrian Christians will continue to suffer.

Joe Collins