"Really....why you don't like "The Last Jedi" movie?" Topic

Imho was not that bad…

Can you enlight me…?

Thanks in advance….

Amicalement
Armand

But I do like it…..

I found the plot to be somewhat annoying and the destruction of the imperial ship to be a tactic that did not seem plausible based upon prior events (why not just jump an old Y-Wing into the Deathstar back in Episodes IV and VI?). In other words, poor writing.

Rob

Not seen it. Am in no hurry.

Nor solo.

Personally, setting aside the commonly mentioned problems and the big picture and thematic problems, I didn't like it because:

Casino planet thing inserted a social commentary beat that is OUT OF PLACE in Star Wars, at least as I liked it. Also, it didn't make sense. If you're going to put cayenne in candy that's great if it makes great candy, but if originality is its only virtue, not a virtue.

Casino planet thing didn't matter, big waste of time. It's fine to run down a side plot where we gain something we didn't expect and don't gain what we did except. But there should at least be a worthwhile self-discovery. But spending over half and hour for something that didn't advance plot or theme seemed like a cheat.

They killed Luke Skywalker more or less just to kill Luke Skywalker. Fine.

So we can hyper jump something into something else to destroy it? Why haven't we been doing that all along? Why didn't they destroy the Death Star that way? Kinda takes all the awesomeness away from Luke's "use the force" moment in Episode IV if they could have just picked a frigate they couldn't afford to maintain anyway and hopped it right into the middle. That just gutted all of Star Wars spaceship combat: why is all this exciting zooming and shooting going on?

There was that chrome stormtrooper woman who they were trying in 7 & 8 to make into someone that would be fun to finally defeat. They didn't manage it before she was defeated, and her defeat wasn't that great anyway.

There was stuff I liked, but more that I didn't. It was okay as a thing to watch, but if you thought about it very much it ruined not only Episode VIII, but a lot of the rest of it.

MY Main problem is the new trilogy has made my heroes(Luke,Han, and leia out to be complete failures.

I thought about this again recently and having looked at he classic three movies again, I have to say that the biggest single issue I had with this movie was the utter lack of establishment of setting and characters in this movie.

It just starts. No set up. No grounding of characters. You are just off and going.

Compare that to Star Wars, which has a great opening action scene that manages to do a slight bit of character establishment and then fully establishes the characters in the following scenes. You meet each of the characters- get to know what they are about, and go along for the ride. You are invested.

Look at Empire. You already know these characters, but they establish the setting- the rebels have a new base. They establish a threat- the environment itself is dangerous and the rebels are having trouble even setting it up. The danger threatens the life of one of the major characters and a new goal is established- get to Dagobah. Han is leaving, but no one wants him to go. He has his own threat to deal with. Then the Empire shows up and throw everything into disarray. The rebels must flee, Han, Leia, Chewi and C3PO manage to get away, barely, and the ship won't work properly. Luke gets trained, but Vader lays a trap and everyone is reunited in the end, but things go badly. You are invested.

The Last Jedi just starts. Apparently blowing up the latest and greatest Death Star 3.0 just happened, but that hasn't even slowed the First Order Down. They have a huge fleet and they've discovered a rebel base- is this the same base from the last movie? They don't say. Does it matter? You just aren't given a chance to become invested.

There's a comedy routine between a single rebel fighter attacking the entire First Order Fleet. Even for Star Wars one ship attacking an entire fleet is a bit silly, but Po is a super pilot? I guess? They don't really say. Everyone is mad at him for doing this, and somehow conning the slowest, lamest bomber squadron ever into attacking just on dreadnought, badly, and mostly dying. Here's a new character, who is she? No idea, but it doesn't matter as she dies just after dropping her bombs.

Finn wakes up. Does he do anything? No, he's just comic relief now.

Here's a new character. Is she the sister of the bomber pilot? I guess? Who is she? What is her motivation? Who knows?

Rey wants training. Rey won't get training. Rey whacks rocks.

Fleet is found. Fleet is attacked. Hey, that's Ackbar. Remember him? Oh, it really was a trap. He's dead.

Leia's dead. Nope, she's just hurt.

The admiral arrived? Who is she? Why is she dressed like she just arrived from a night at the opera? Why doesn't Po respect her? Who knows? Who cares?

Kylo's still spoiled. Helmets are dumb. Why did he have a helmet, anyway?

No grounding. No establishment. No point to anything. Just action, action, action. Hey, a kid has the force, because everybody has the force. We all have the force. Yay! The End.

Other than that, here are my other issues…

No character arcs. All of the characters are locked into who they are at the beginning and end of the movie.

Who exactly are the resistance? At the start, it seemed from the movie you could fit the entirety of it in a single small venue theater. At the end, they literally fit them all in the Millenium Falcon.

Why is the First Order interesting? The Empire was serious, professional, scary and threatening (albeit bad shots). The First Order seemed like a collection of spoof actors channeling the worst of silly WWII movie Nazis led by over acting shouting championship winners.

Terrible plot. Nonsensical story arc.

Dumb space physics. Yeah, it's Star Wars, but my brain hurt from how dumb it was.

Pointless sacrifices, pointless side arcs that led nowhere.

Forgettable plot, forgettable characters, forgettable vehicle designs. The most interesting character in the first movie was Finn, and he was utterly wasted in Jedi as comic relief. He became the C3PO of Jedi (and even outdid the actual C3PO at this, who was basically a prop in this movie). Chewbacca- was a hairy prop. R2D2- was a white and blue prop. Leia- was a Mary Poppins prop. Phasma- pointless. Less interesting than Boba Fett- who at least had cool armor.

Rey- so what did she learn?
Po- he's brash…and, wait, didn't every other movie in Star Wars make that out to be a desirable trait?
Rose- she's…what is she exactly?
Snoke- he's…what is he exactly?
Luke- other than a bizarre love of blue milk right from the source…what was his point exactly?
Admiral Purple Hair…who was she? She has zero set up at all. Why couldn't she tell everyone the plan exactly?

It all felt so pointless and meaningless by the end.

Nice choreography of fights, and a few nice set designs, though.

No Jar Jar!

For me it started with the first scene. BOMBS DON'T FALL IN SPACE!

Went downhill from there. TGerritsen sums up a lot of it nicely. Didn't even bother with the Han Solo movie.

I happened to watch a 30 minute youtube video this morning about somebody going full "Annie Wilkes" from Misery and shouting that Leia could not survive in space and we got a complete biology and physics course to explain it.

There is a scene in the same movie, where something even more impossible happens and nobody bats an eyelid.

It's when Poe Rushes into the docking bay and is caught in a huge explosion that throws him a few dozen feet into the air.

The amount of force to do so would be enough to break every bone in his body and liquefy his organs, not to mention serious third and fourth degree burns. Yet he walks away. Poe should have been so dead the actor would have to play corpses until he is 87 years old to make up for it.

How come the torpedoes make a 90° turn into the Death Star Vent ? In the animatics they drop in a parabolic arc like a bomb …

Remember how Lucas imagined that the fighters in Star Wars operate like WWII fighters ?

That's why Poe attacks the dreadnought with boosters because unlike say a show like Babylon Five they understand actual physics and can actually turn on their axis regardless of motion.

Actual physics don't work in Star Wars.

How do you explain they can vent a few septillion joules of heat being vented through a port the size of a womp rat ?

A starship is powered by a few drops of some unobtanium and can cross the galaxy ? Also they seem to operate like atmospheric craft, cut the engines and they come to a complete standstill.

Do you have an atmosphere inside a giant space slug and are respirators enough to survive there ?

How come that you can turn blast doors into slag within seconds of plunging your lightsaber into it, but the lightsaber itself doesn't melt your face off or burn your fingers up to the shoulder of the guy standing next to you ?

And remember it's the movies that gave us a character who when first introduced looked back fondly at his friendship with the boy's father, but when we finally did see it, it ended with said character chopping off limbs and leaving him to burn alive, not even have the decency to give him a merciful death for the sake of that friendship …

And the same character who conspired with the greatest Jedi master to throw down the evil Sith Lord who had completely blindsided them by getting the twin children of his acolyte, completely disregarding one of them on account of being a girl and then leaving the other one to rot on a desert planet, grow just as impatient and hot headed as his dad (aka not the most stable personality in the galaxy) and then randomly picked him up as an afterthought, barely gave him hints about how to use a laser sword and then when he should be trained do a meaningless charade pretending they would not train him for being too old, I admit it was a little green troll who said it.

But BOMBS. DROPPING. IN. SPACE. IS. A. CRIME !!!

Look folks, we got one good romping space adventure, a big dramatic sequel with an unexpected surprise because Lucas pulled it out of his ass at the right time the other idea "Luke is Leia's brother." Didn't work so well …

And the rest is just Lucas trying to exorcise his demons by trying to make the prequels as his perfect personal Star Wars films, which failed.

Disney then picked it up on the assumption they had paid a few billion dollars for the equivalent of the entire Western Canon worth of stories, when in fact they bought the same story about a family of space wizards with laser swords told slightly differently over and over.

The Last Jedi was set up to fail when Disney tried to make the sequels both a reboot and a sequel, continue the adventures of the old gang, introduce new ones and then had JJ "I'm a crook with a mystery box fetish" Abrams helm the first movie and create expectations that would never match "No, I am your father." Ever again. Johnson intended to surprise us by defusing expectations, but jinxed it in the execution.

Like so many things, if you don't love Star Wars when you're nine years old, you have no heart. If you still think they are the best thing ever made and vicariously exist through them, at thirty nine, you have no brains.

Some thoughts I shared with my gaming group right after I saw the movie in the theater:

Good: Poe's X-Wing mods make sense. Mid-range is the most deadly part of an approach for getting shot down by flak – we've played with stuff like this in our own air force (see: afterburners). Why not put a booster on all ships? Well, it appears to occupy the space normally occupied by the X-Wing hyperdrive, so that may explain Poe's emergency landing instead of just warping away with the fleet.

Good: Resistance bombers look like something intended for ground attack against primitive forces… ironically like something the Empire would have used routinely. Using them against front-line capital ships yields mixed results at best.

Bad: What are the most heavily armored parts of a sea-going battleship? The bridge and the guns. At least those nice big bay windows on the Dreadnought give the bridge crew a good view of that little gnat blowing up all their armament.

Ugly: Poe is an idiot. IF this was the sum total of the Resistance forces, he was risking 90% of their air-wing for ONE enemy capital ship (of the half dozen they had RIGHT THERE). It's pretty clear the Resistance fleet is outmatched by even a couple of star destroyers, so taking out the ‘fleet killer' really doesn't even begin to even the odds.

Good: The interaction between Luke and Rey seemed generally believable to me. At first I wondered how Luke could not have felt a ‘tremor in the Force' from Rey, given her abilities. But this makes sense if Luke severed his connection.

Good: I also liked that Luke was clearly focusing more on the Spiritual side of the Force, even more than Yoda had.

Bad: I never quite got why the Jedi had to end. Yes, they screwed the Wookiee with Palpatine, but it didn't seem clear to me why that indicted the whole system. Reform – yes. Burn it all – seems a little too extreme. Maybe the intent at the end is that Luke softened his view just a little bit.

Good: The brief shot of Luke's X-Wing was a nice touch.

Bad: Luke came to the planet in his X-Wing. Presumably with R2 on board. The X-Wing is in the drink. How did R2 get back to the Resistance? How did he wind up with the entire map of the galaxy except for the PART of the map that showed where he had been? Guess it won't ever be explained. I'll try to sleep anyway.

UGLY: Tracking thru hyperspace. There is no aspect of this whole plot thread that is not contrived to make the story work. First Order can track the Resistance, but only from a single ship, using a single device located in the center of the flagship. Two minutes of re-writes could have fixed this: Yes, the First Order is tracking the Resistance Fleet. There must be a tracking device on board Leia's ship just like on the Falcon in EpIV. Find it? Leia's ship is 2 kilometers long. Have to get on board the First Order ship to find the frequency and/or location of the tracker so we can disable it.

Good: Casino planet made sure we know rich people are bad in every galaxy. Whew – was a little confused on that one.

Bad: The whole chase with the race-horse-things really didn't do anything for me. The whole sequence looks like it was added just to set up the epilogue scene with the kids.

Ugly: What was the point of the whole Finn and Rose side trip? I get that they needed a ‘C' plot to balance out the pacing, but the whole setup was just odd to me. Urgently need to escape the First Order… so let's go across the galaxy just to give one of our key characters his own plot thread.

Good: Kylo's hesitation when attacking Leia's ship. Subtle as an anvil, but it worked for me.

Bad: Princesses… IN SPACE. I don't know how, but I would have replaced this entire scene with something else. For the first time we ever see Leia use the Force on screen to any real effect, the whole thing just seems over the top. Seeing Leia covered in ice crystals, waving her hand and flying started the whole chorus of ‘Let It Go' in my head.

Ugly: YOU KILLED ACKBAR! YOU BLEW HIM UP! G##D##N YOU ALL TO HELL! He deserved better than this! I know the actor (Erik Bauersfield) that did his voice in ROTJ just died, but they had already recast (Tom Kane). My personal opinion, is they could have ditched Vice-Admiral Holdo's character altogether, and given that role to Ackbar. The ‘hyperspace missile' tactic would have been the ultimate way to give Ackbar his sendoff in the franchise.

Bad: My wife and I disagree on what the plan was when they evacuated the Raddus. I thought the plan was for Holdo to do the ‘hyperspace missile maneuver'. My wife thought the plan was to jump away and lure the First Order away – the missile idea was something Holdo came up with later. Either way – WHAT IN THE NAME OF YODA'S GREEN ASS WAS SHE WAITING FOR? The clock is ticking… or is that the sound of our ships' wreckage plinking on the hull?

Ugly: I am really hard pressed to find one redeeming feature of Vice Admiral Holdo. At. All.

Good: Snoke, the Emperor wanna-be, gets his Sith comeuppance… guess you should have re-read the job duties of Sith apprentice when you hired Kylo.

Ugly: So Kylo is the new Supreme Leader? Maybe 40 Rebels vs the First Order isn't much of a mismatch. Episode 9 should have a runtime of 14 minutes.

Good/Bad/UGLY: The ‘hyperspace starship missile maneuver'. Probably the coolest effects shot in the movie. No sound only made it more jarring. But give it more than 30 seconds thought and now the whole Star Wars universe starts to fall apart. Suddenly an X-Wing-sized missile looks like a Star Destroyer killer. Millennium Falcon to take out a city, Star Destroyer to crack a planet in half?

Good: Finn's fight with Phasma. The setup may have been a bit contrived, but I thought John Boyega's acting in this scene was more convincing than most of the other acting in the entire movie. Raw rage. My only two disappointments: "You're scum" "REBEL Scum" eh… The other was when Finn went down the shaft then pops back up. For half a second I thought the big reveal would be Finn using the Force. Nope. Probably would have been too much at that point, anyway.

UGLY: The ‘Battering Laser'. Star Wars is known for its sometimes backward tech, but this one takes the cake! A ‘Death Star' inspired field artillery piece with a range equivalent to a backpack mortar that has to be TOWED into position at a speed rivalling Hannibal's elephant march across the Alps. Here's an idea: instead of landing this 10,000 ton gun on the battlefield, you just DROP it onto the rebels? Tell me how that could possibly be any less effective?

Bad: Finn is a pilot now? And one of the only 3 of 13 that survive the epic battle? For that matter, Rose is a pilot? Guess there's no reason she couldn't be, but why put a pilot on ‘escape pod baby-sitting duty'? Pink Five said "Normally I don't get to fly, but today they said everyone got to go!"

Ugly: Your fellow pilot has one last chance to save everyone with a suicide charge into (what's supposed to be) the BFG on the battlefield. What do you do? That's right, run into him – nearly killing you both and ending any chance of stopping the enemy. For love. Riiiiiiight….

Bad: So, what's the deal with the Dice from the Falcon? Clearly they were supposed to have some special meaning to Leia. They were on the Falcon from the very first time it appeared in EpIV, so maybe they were just a reminder of Han? Then why did Leia leave them on the planet – even if she knew they weren't ‘real'? Just felt like there was some inside information that never got communicated to the audience. Or it was just another attempt to prevent the audience from guessing Luke wasn't really there – in which case it was rather superfluous.

Good: Don't get Luke's uniform dirty – ever! Any other movie I would have thought that gesture was over-the-top. But congrats to Mark Hamill for pulling it off perfectly here.
UGLY: No more Skywalkers. Unless Kylo gets the keys to the First Order harem as part of the deal, looks like we're at the end of the line. But since Rey is living proof that being a Skywalker may not mean all that much, guess it doesn't have much of an impact.

EDIT: I should also add that my opinion of the The Last Jedi has gone downhill since I saw it, mostly because the production team has gone out of their way to label anyone who didn't care for it as a racist, homophobe, man-child, etc.

Seems like the current fad in Hollywood sci-fi is to add a 'controversial' character and if the reviews are bad, use that to jump on a soapbox.

My problem with the new trilogy is that no matter how much the creators deny it, they're simply repeats of the originals.

@Patrick R
I don't agree with all of your comments, but this is spot on.

"Like so many things, if you don't love Star Wars when you're nine years old, you have no heart. If you still think they are the best thing ever made and vicariously exist through them, at thirty nine, you have no brains."

Haters need to be constantly reminded these movies are not for you, they are for the kids. Perhaps they won't be as beloved as Star Wars is to you, but they are for them, not you.

No, they aren't for "the kids", they're for whoever has the most money. That's the big damn mistake the Mouse made. They misjudged where all the cash-flow originated. They tried to appeal to a "broader" spectrum, but failed to keep the core-cash in mind.

What other franchise was able to support hundreds of millions in merchandise sales each year, with 14 years of no content? It was THE most successful IP of the 80's and 90's, and you didn't have anything from '83 to '97, except the Expanded Universe.

I'm pretty much with Ghostrunner. There were good and bad moments, but mostly it seems like the movie suffered from hollow characters and a crappy director.

Like so many things, if you don't love Star Wars when you're nine years old, you have no heart. If you still think they are the best thing ever made and vicariously exist through them, at thirty nine, you have no brains.

+4 Vorpal Sword!

As far as I'm concerned the new trilogy is for the kids and Rogue One etc for the older fans.

Ugly: Poe is an idiot.

I'm with Ghostrunner on that one. Frankly I'm surprised that his attack at the 'battering ram' wasn't solo with a live thermal detonator accidently dropped down the back of his jacket….

Probably the worst thing of all the shoddy script writing is the need to "SIGN POST" everything – I mean they need to channel Triumph of the Will for Haq's address to the troops in the Force Awakens to flag that the First Order are 'bad'? Half the audience didn't need it and the other half probably wouldn't have got the reference anyhow… And really how necessary was it after they shot a load of villagers in the first act?

How good or bad TLJ is largely depends on the individual, his/her preconceptions and expectations of what SW should be and how its story and characters should unfold. YMMV.

Many thanks!.

Amicalement
Armand

@WhiteDog

Huh? Its pretty much free (practically speaking) to watch any number of the movies at any time. I suppose you might like to discuss how businesses are "bad" for making profit.

@Private

The value of the franchise has very little to do with the box-office or subsequent streaming licensing. Mel Brooks was more right than he knew when he poked fun at the merchandising. They didn't spend 4 billion to make a few movies, they spent it to license and produce a universe.

What I was getting at in my previous post was the attempt by Disney to buck the fan-base. Like it or not, that's who made Star Wars worth what it was. People loving Star Wars for decades after the film, and spending the frankly ridiculous amounts of money that they did, is what made it valuable.

The real question is, who in their right mind thought it was a good idea to take the Golden Goose and punch it in the beak? Sure they made money, but their confidence in the direction of the franchise has been obviously shaken Post-Solo, which I thought was actually not too bad. When Star Wars fans actually want GL to come back and save Star Wars, you really need to sit back and reflect on your decisions.

Going by the anecdotal evidence amongst my nephews and nieces and their friends, Star Wars is barely on their radar. In the 8-13 age group, none of them or their friends have any interest. They thought the characters were "boring and dumb", but the "Porgs were cute" (the last one from my 9yo niece). Marvel has definitely eclipsed Star Wars, both in marketing and quality of film for its genre.

How hard is it to make a palatable Space Opera? Sell it to kids, sell it to parents, and sell it to fans. I would thoroughly enjoy it if they fired Kathleen Kennedy, and gave it even half the thought that they put into the success that is Marvel.

Luke Skywalker took three movies (IV thru VI) to learn how to use the force. Even then he was not up to defeating the emperor and required his fathers help.

In the first movie (VII) Rey defeats a person trained by Luke and the new emperor and in the second movie (VIII) seems to have the powers of a full Jedi after a minor training course by Luke.

In the first movie (VII) the millennium falcon takes off into hyper drive inside a ship and in the second movie (VIII) a major warship is destroyed by ramming using hyper drive.

Luke becomes a full Jedi by the end of movie VI but in movie VII because his nephew goes rogue he gives up and goes into hiding. Why does anyone want to find this wimp in movie VII.

It is too bad that whoever took over the franchise at Disney did not understand the story line and SciFi. A woman Jedi coming of age series would have been a much more exciting and much more profitable product.

OK I'm going to make a lot of folks mad here but all the things posted here that are wrong with this episode are typical of ALL Star Wars movies. It's just not good science fiction, episode I to XXV or whatever they are on.

@White Dog

"The value of the franchise has very little to do with the box-office or subsequent streaming licensing."

You couldn't be more wrong. The Force Awakens made nearly 2 billion in ticket sales. Disney is estimated to take about 50% of ticket sales. I'll grant you it may be a "tail wagging the dog" situation but you need the dog and its profitable. Disney's licensing revenue was 3 billion last year for all of its various assets.

"The real question is, who in their right mind thought it was a good idea to take the Golden Goose and punch it in the beak?"

You make it sound as if they intentionally executed poorly.

Lets just hope that JJ can put Humpty Dumpty back together again after Rian killed every interesting character, plotline, and mystery.

You make it sound as if they intentionally executed poorly

Maybe not, but the phrase ‘subverting expectations' seems to be the buzzword these days.

It seems to go beyond ‘let's find a way to surprise the audience' and turned more into ‘let's show the audience they don't understand the movies they've been watching for the past 30 years'.

OK I'm going to make a lot of folks mad here but all the things posted here that are wrong with this episode are typical of ALL Star Wars movies. It's just not good science fiction, episode I to XXV or whatever they are on.

Doubt anyone here is going to get mad, but I doubt a lot will agree.

Only one things matters…

Han shot first.

Injecting Social Justice did'nt help the movie.

"But BOMBS. DROPPING. IN. SPACE. IS. A. CRIME !!!"

Yes, yes it is. :) It's called a 'willing suspension of disbelief' and that scene was so bad that it became impossible to suspend disbelief.

"Haters need to be constantly reminded these movies are not for you, they are for the kids. Perhaps they won't be as beloved as Star Wars is to you, but they are for them, not you."

I disagree. My 14 and 10 year old boys couldn't care less about these movies. After TLJ neither even asked to see Solo. And both were big fans of Clone Wars.

And I don't understand why they needed a map to find Luke. That's not how space works, all you need are coordinates!

It's science fantasy. so the physics and such don't have to work.

But there needs te be an internal consistency – a "conceptual continuity" to the work – and that was missing.

Also missing were a workable plot line (everything is on a limited time line, yet they have time for extended side trips) and characters that were interesting or that we were given any reason to care about (other than being told "this is a good character, you must like them").

The space bomber thing was the only decent part of the film – it was interesting enough that I was willing to suspend my disbelief about many things – including bombs dropping in space and such – because it was one of the few intresting/compelling scenes in the film.

The bombs START moving inside the bombers (which have artificial gravity). The bombs continue to move while in freefall (space) because "objects in motion continue to move until acted upon by an outside force "- the dreadnought in this case(leaving aside the whole x-wings skidding in space).

Like it or hate it, it can't destroy your childhood unless your memories of childhood ARE that fragile that you have to rely on a video to keep it going …

This:

No character arcs. All of the characters are locked into who they are at the beginning and end of the movie.

Just some thoughts on the first half of TLJ:

Poe attacks the Dread Naught because it's a fleet killer and an opportunity to attack A Dread Naught (is there more than one?) doesn't come every day apparently.

Ok, but whose fleet? The republics? The rebel fleet that turns tail and runs anyway?

Who cares because Poe unleashes an onslaught against said naught leaving it almost helpless. Doesn't the Empire have a plan to protect this important asset? "Oh yea, somebody release our fighters… somebody… anybody".

Before we cast stones lets take a look at the Rebel leadership. Have they ever used these bombers before? One bomber is destroyed taking out the bombers to either side. Was the guy who planned that formation on those bombers? How embarrassing.

At least the Empire's leaders are fast learners. When they catch up to the Rebel fleet this time they immediately release their fighters (Snoke's obviously a great motivator) leading to a loss of rebel leadership.

VA Holdo then arrives (apparently from a fund raiser or happy hour- hey, rank has it's privileges) to direct her disheartened troops. On second thought, it seems her theory of command involves treating her subordinates like mushrooms. After ripping into her best pilot, for his prior ill-advised order (the one no other admiral countermanded) she confidently assumed command. Having thus inspired her crew to overcome their current difficulties they promptly mutiny (do the rebels really need admirals?).

I'd rather split up the fleet, sacrificing one ship to save the others, but what do I know?

While all the older characters seem like themselves Luke appears to be a shell of his former self. When informed his sister needs help he doesn't even ask how she is. He acknowledges Rey needs a teacher but is initially prepared to let the chips fall where they may. All his faith is gone.

I understand people can change (though he seems like his old self aboard the Falcon). He lost people close to him, redeemed his father and faced the Emperor; all to defeat the empire. But one brat goes rogue and his faith is shattered? Couldn't Yoda have given him a pep talk (if Yoda doesn't know how he feels no one does)?

I don't mean to imply I didn't enjoy the movie It's sci-fi after all. But some of the above did make me wonder.

But one brat goes rogue and his faith is shattered?

To be fair to the script writers they may be weren't too far off with that response. It was his nephew and the son of his best mate after all! And Skywalker's do have previous on the issue of investing more in personal relationships than is advisable for a Jedi.

Well you know it's bad when you manage to create a whole new industry just to talk about how bad your film was.

Christopher

I don't like going to the cinema to be lectured: "Hey, women have been shortchanged throughout history, so we're going to correct that right now: all rebel authority figures are going to be female, from the very first scene where some stupid male is going to get straightened out with regards to exactly what kit is and is not going to be evacuated. Poe Dameron's toxic masculinity is also going to get slapped down pretty hard, literally [apparently, physical assault is OK when it's a female authority figure assaulting a male subordinate – presumably that's why Gen. Patton got in trouble]. Pay attention, viewer, because there will be further messages about animal rights, the evils of capitalism, the promotion of multiculturalism, etc."

Watching the film felt like being hectored by an old friend who had, unaccountably, suddenly transformed into an annoying, proselytising Liberal activist. Sheesh, I get enough of that every time I log into Facebook…

This may have been said above, I didn't read it all. :) But I do agree with the point above about how they decided all the heroes from earlier movies would end up losers.

Seems like if the tactic of just running away a bit more was going to work with the Imperial Navy, that Navy wouldn't have been such a big thing.

Response to the guy who does a mutiny: "I like him!" "I do, too."

Pointless main bad guy.

andy