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"120mm Mortar and 4 crew." Topic


14 Posts

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World War Two on the Land

392 hits since 27 Dec 2018
©1994-2019 Bill Armintrout
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Tango01 Supporting Member of TMP27 Dec 2018 11:16 a.m. PST

Wonder to know how many of those the German had…


link

Amicalement
Armand

Fred Cartwright27 Dec 2018 11:49 a.m. PST

Quite a lot. Standard late war support weapon, often replacing infantry guns as it packed a punch, was easy and cheap to make and easy to transport.

Personal logo Mserafin Supporting Member of TMP27 Dec 2018 12:53 p.m. PST

The design was "borrowed" from the Red Army.

Lion in the Stars27 Dec 2018 1:11 p.m. PST

@Tango: about 4 per Panzergrenadier infantry battalion. As heavy as the 12cm mortar was, I don't know if it was issued to the leg infantry.

Tango01 Supporting Member of TMP27 Dec 2018 2:02 p.m. PST

Many thanks my friends! (smile)

Amicalement
Armand

Fred Cartwright27 Dec 2018 2:06 p.m. PST

I don't know if it was issued to the leg infantry.

Yes it was. 28 in a 44 German infantry division. It was lighter and easier to move than an infantry gun.

Frederick Supporting Member of TMP27 Dec 2018 4:22 p.m. PST

As noted, lots – every German infantry division had a platoon of those bad boys at the battalion level, so as noted 28 per Division – and they were a total knock-off of the Soviet version

Walking Sailor28 Dec 2018 6:37 a.m. PST

28 (per division) + 4 (tubes per platoon) = 9 platoons/battalions per division. By the time the Germans were starting to field 120mm mortars they were starting to field 6 battalions per division. And production never met demand. link
It was a copy of the Soviet mortar and had wheels for towing link . In most of the German Army, think horses.

Starfury Rider28 Dec 2018 8:19 a.m. PST

They start to appear with Inf Bns around late 1943. In the early format the 12-cm Pl could be fully or part motorised. When they first go to Inf Divs the principal was they replaced the 8-cm Mortar Pl in the MG Coy; the 8-cm tubes were then added two to each Rifle Coy, and the Rifle Pls discarded their 5-cm mortars.

That same format was carried over to the 1943 New Type (neu Art) reorganisation of late 1943. There was a recognition though that there were insufficient 12-cm mortars to fill out all units. In that event Bns were authorised an 8-cm equipped Pl in lieu, so a Bn could have 12x 8-cm tubes. Same occurred under the Type44 reorganisation when the Rifle Coys lost their 8-cm tubes, which went back into a Pl in the Heavy Coy.

The 12-cm did not replace the Inf gun, and Regts continued to field six 7.5-cm and two 15-cm guns in the Inf Gun Coy.

Under the Volks Grenadier format the Inf Gun Coy became, in effect, a Mortar Coy, with two Pls of 12-cm weapons and one Inf Gun Pl (either four 7.5-cm guns or two 15-cm guns), while the Volks Gren Bns had six 8-cm mortar and four 7.5-cm inf guns. So overall same number of mortars as under Type44, but differently distributed.

There were also a number of independent 12-cm Mortar Bns with 36 weapons authorised, never been sure how many were fielded.

Gary

Personal logo Mserafin Supporting Member of TMP28 Dec 2018 8:22 a.m. PST

In fact, 28 / 4 = 7, which is the number of infantry battalions in a late-war German division (3 regiments of 2 battalions and a separate fusilier battalion).

Griefbringer28 Dec 2018 9:14 a.m. PST

As heavy as the 12cm mortar was, I don't know if it was issued to the leg infantry.

Actually the 12 cm mortars are relatively lightweight for support weapons, and could be easily drawn around by a couple of horses.

The main logistical issues is the ammunition: 20 rounds weights more than the weapon itself, and a trained mortar crew can fire that number of rounds pretty quickly.

Wolfhag28 Dec 2018 9:48 a.m. PST

IIRC weren't the Germans and Russian able to use their each other 120 mortar ammo?

I checked and the German 120 round is 4.7" as is the Russian and both weigh 15-16kg.

Wolfhag

Tango01 Supporting Member of TMP28 Dec 2018 11:35 a.m. PST

Thanks also!.


Amicalement
Armand

Tango01 Supporting Member of TMP29 Dec 2018 8:05 p.m. PST

And here are the Russians….


picture


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Amicalement
Armand

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