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"Les Batailles Oubliees Fleurus by Alain Arcq" Topic


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537 hits since 26 Dec 2018
©1994-2019 Bill Armintrout
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Valmy9226 Dec 2018 3:04 p.m. PST

Does anyone have a copy of this book? Does it have good orders of battle, particularly for the allies? How detailed? Regiments by name? Battalions/Squadrons? I haven't been able to find even a moderately complete OB anywhere, would like to know before I pay many times the list price for it. Others in the series are hit and miss as regards OBs.
Thanks,
Phil

Prince of Essling27 Dec 2018 4:21 p.m. PST

I don't have the book but Digby-Smith's "the Napoleonic Wars Data Book" has an OoB for 16 June (page 84-85) and the battle of 26 June (pages 86 -87). I suppose it is the latter that is of interest:


Austro-Dutch force – commander Prinz Josias von Coburg-Saalfeld

1ST COLUMN: Prince William of Orange
GL Prince von Waldeck (Dutch troops)
4 btns grenadiers (van Busek; de Briey; Adorian; van Panhuijs);
Schmid (1 battalion (batn));
Orange Gelderland (1 batn);
Mollenbruyn (1 batn);
Inf Regt Waldeck (1st batn)
Hussar Regt van Heereren; Hessen-Philipstahl & Timmermann (2 squadrons (sqn) each)
Cavalry regt van Tuyll (2 sqns)
Cav Regt Legion Bourbon (2 sqns – émigré unit)

GdD Prince Friederich of Orange (Dutch troops)
Hollands Gaardes (1 batn)
3 batns Grenadiers (von Hessen-Philipstahl; von Solms & van Raesfeldt)
IR de Petit (1 batn)
IR May (Swiss – 2 batns)
IR Waldeck (5th batn)
Gaardes Dragonders; Gaardes te Paard; Carabiniers Orange-Friesland; Dragoon regt van Bylandt; Dragoon Regt Hessen-Kassel; Legion de Damas (émigré unit) – 2 sqns each

GM Count Riesch (Austrian & Émigré troops)
IR Gyulai Nr 32 (2 batns)
Legions de Damas, Beon & Mathieu (émigré troops – 1 batn each)
Legion de Beon (émigré troops – 2 sqns)

2ND COLUMN: LG Baron Quosdanovich (Austrian troops)
including – IR Stain Nr50 (2 batns); IR Erbach Nr 42 (1 1/2 batns) IR Klebek nr 14 (2 batns); IR Toscana Nr 23 (2 batns);
16 guns

3RD COLUMN: FML Prince Kaunitz (Austrian troops)
IR Splenyi Nr51 (2 batns);
IR Callenburg Nr54 (2 batns);
IR Kaunitz Nr20 (2 batns);
Hussar Regt Bercseny (emigre troops) & Chevauleger Regt Lobkowitz Nr3 (3 sqns);
16 guns

4TH COLUMN: Archduke Charles (Austrian troops)
7 1/3 battalions including 4 grenadier;
Hussar Regt Barco Nr35 (10 sqns);
Cuirassier Regt Anspach Nr11 (6 sqns);
18 guns

5TH COLUMN: General Beaulieu (Austrian troops)
3 batns grenadiers;
Tyroler-scharfschutzen (3 companies);
Carneville & Slavonier Freikorps (2 batns each);
IR d'Alton Nr15 (2 batn);
IR F Kinsky Nr47 (3 batn);
IR de Vins Nr37 (3rd batn);
IR A Esterhazy Nr34 (2 batn);
IR Gemmingen Nr21 (1 batn);
Hussar regt Wursmer nr30 (4 sqns);
Hussar regt EH Leopold (2 sqns);
Cuirassier Regt EH Franz Nr29 (6 sqns);
Hussar regt EHFerdinand Nr32 (2 sqns);
Chevauleger Regt Karaczay Nr4 (6 sqns);
Guirassier regt Royal allemande (émigré unit – 2 squadrons);
18 guns

page 293 et seq in Prinz Friedrich Josias von Coburg Saalfeld, Herzog zu Sachsen, K.K. und des heil. röm. Reiches Feldmarschall by August von Witzleben at
link
lists the numbers of battalions & squadrons by column, plus has a breakdown of the supporting artillery by numbers of cannons & howitzers. There are listed many more pieces than in the Digby-Smith book for example the Data book shows no artillery with the 1st column, whereas the link shows 10 Austrian 12 pounders, 12 Dutch 12 pounders, 6 Austrian 7pdr howitzers & 4 Dutch 7pdr howitzers.

Prince of Essling27 Dec 2018 4:34 p.m. PST

Which units supplied companies to the Dutch grenadier battalions can be seem at link
"De oorlog van 1794-95 op het grondgebied van de republiek der Vereenigde Nederlanden … Bewerkt onder toezicht van den chef van den generalen staf"
by Frederick Henri Alexander Sabron,

GarryWills28 Dec 2018 2:07 p.m. PST

Valmy92

Hello I have this book, a souvenir from the Waterloo Museum in 2015. The book has 3 pages of OOB, 2 for the French and 1 for the allies, all the regiments are named but strengths are only given for the French Divisions and not the individual regiments. For the allies only the total strength is provided.

I note that Nafziger has more detailed info for early June 1794.

The book looks like a good quality osprey, worth having, if only to help direction ongoing research.

Regards

Garry Wills
casehotpublishing.com

Prince of Essling28 Dec 2018 2:09 p.m. PST

Mitteilungen des k.u.k. Kriegs-Archivs 5. (Dritte Folge, 1907) link has a useful map at page 154-1

von Winterfeldt28 Dec 2018 2:15 p.m. PST

I found this usefull OdB as well

This is a very complete OoB Composed by (the great researcher) Geert van Uythoven, out of various sources. However it differs from the Digby Smith OoB and from what is written in the Coburg's biography (i.e. the splitting of the 1st Column into three sub-columns and so on). Use the term Brigade as "temporary grouped units" as in the RevWars.
ORDER OF BATTLE OF THE AUSTRO-DUTCH FORCES AT FLEURUS,
commanded by his Highness General Hereditary Prince of Orange-Nassau
26 June 1794
Abbreviations: Du=Dutch; Sw= Swiss (in Dutch service); Em = French emigrée's (in Dutch service); Ge = German (in Dutch service); Wa=Walloon (in Dutch service); Au =Austrian:Eau =French emigrée's (in Austrian service)
FIRST COLUMN (Prince Frederick of Orange and Nassau; Dutch) [13,414 men, 3,762 horses]
ADVANCE GUARD (General Friedrich Franz Xaver Hohenzollern-Hechingen; Austrian)
Du Korps Huzaren Van Timmerman (2 sqns)[also called "Korps Roode Hussaren van Timmerman"]
Au Chevau-légers ["Kinsky", 6 squadrons ?]
Em Jagers van Anspach (2 companies)
Em Jagers van Matthieu
Au Infanterie Regiment No. 56 "Wenzel Colloredo" (1 battalion)
Au Pioneers
Du Artillery (2x 12-pdr cannon, 1x 7-pdr howitzer)
Du Grenadier battalion "Van Solms" (1 battalion) 1) Composed of the grenadier companies of the IR "Oranje-Nassau No. 1" (2 coys), "Oranje-Nassau No. 2" (2 coys), and "Erfprins van Oranje" (2 companies each).
MAIN FORCE (Hauptkolonne)
Brigade Major-General Heinrich Prinz von Reuβ-Plauen (Austrian)
Au Infanterie Regiment No. 56 "Wenzel Colloredo" (1 battalion)
Du Hollandsche Gardes (‘Dutch Guards') (1 battalion)
Sw Garde Zwitsers (‘Swiss Guards') (1 battalion)
Du Artillery (4x 12-pdr cannon, 2x 6-pdr cannon, 2x 7-pdr howitzer)
Brigade Major-General baron Guillaume Anne de Constant-Villars (Dutch)
Au Infanterie Regiment No. 17 "Hohenlohe" (1 battalion)
Du Inf. Regiment No. 4 "Wilcke" (1 battalion) Lt-col Frederik Ernst count van Hohenlohe (Dutch)
Sw Inf. Regiment "Stockar de Neuforn" (1 battalion) Colonel-cdr Abraham Schmid de Molis (Dutch)
Du Grenadier battalion "Van Panhuijs" (1 battalion)-- Composed of the grenadier companies of the IR No. 7 "De Bons", No. 16 "Mönster", and No. 23 "Stuart" (2 companies each).
Du Artillery (2x 12-pdr cannon, 2x 6-pdr cannon, 1x 7-pdr howitzer)
Brigade Major-General Carel Vincent van Boetzelaer (Dutch)
Du Regiment Cavalerie "Van Hessen-Philipstall" (2 squadrons)
Du Regiment Cavalerie "Van Tuyll van Serooskerken" (2 squadrons)
Au Kurassier Regiment No. 12 "Kavanaugh" (3 squadrons)
SECOND AND THIRD COLUMN
ADVANCE GUARD (Major-general Johann Sigmund Graf Riesch; Austrian)
Du Korps Huzaren van Heeckeren (2 squadrons)[also called "Korps Zwarte Huzaren"]
Du Jagers van Bylandt (1 light battalion)
Eau Légion Bourbon (2 squadrons)
Em Korps van Béon (1 light battalion, 2 squadrons)
Ge Vorst van Waldeck, 5th Battalion (1 light battalion)
Du Artillery (3x 6-pdr cannon, 2x 7-pdr howitzer)
MAIN FORCE SECOND COLUMN (Lieutenant-general Frederik Fuerst von Waldeck; Dutch)
Brigadiers Major-generals Baillet de la Tour (Austrian), G.L.F. von Haacke (Dutch), and Willem van der Duyn (Dutch)
Du Grenadier battalion "Van Raesfeldt" (1 battalion) Composed of the grenadier companies of the IR No. 2 "Maneil", No. 19 "Douglas", and No. 24 "Bentinck" (2 companies each).
Du Grenadier battalion "Van Buseck" (1 battalion) Composed of the grenadier companies of the IR No. 3 "Dopff", No. 10 "Brakell", and No. 13 "De Thouars" (2 companies each).
Du Grenadier battalion "Van Hessen-Philipstall" (1 battalion) Composed of the grenadier companies of the IR No. 5 "Des Villates", No. 6 "Van Welderen", and No. 8 "Bosc de la Calmette" (2 companies each).
Du Grenadier battalion "Mollenbruyn" (1 battalion) Composed of the grenadier companies of the IR No. 17 "Plettenberg", "Markgraaf van Baden", and "Nassau-Usingen" (2 companies each).
Au Infanterie Regiment No. 17 "Hohenlohe" (1 battalion)
Au Infanterie Regiment No. 31 "Benjovszky" (1 battalion)
Au Infanterie Regiment No. 34 "Anton Esterházy" (1 battalion)
Wa Regiment Dragonders "Van Bylandt" (2 squadrons)
Du Regiment Dragonders "Van Hessen-Cassel" (2 squadrons)
Au Kurassier Regiment No. 12 "Cavanaugh" (3 squadrons)
Du Artillery (6x 12-pdr cannon, 3x 6-pdr cannon, 3x 7-pdr howitzer)
MAIN FORCE THIRD COLUMN (Major-general Degenschield [?])
Brigade Major-general Anthony Louis van Oyen (Dutch)
Du Regiment Hollandsche Gardes te Paard (2 to 3 squadrons)
Du Regiment Garde Dragonders (2 to 3 squadrons)
Au Chevau-léger Regiment No. 1 "Kaiser" (4 squadrons?)
Du Artillery (10x 12-pdr cannon, 3x 16-pdr howitzer)
Brigade Major-general C. von Horn (Dutch); Colonel Michel Louis Ricard (Dutch)
Au Infanterie Regiment No. 34 "Anton Esterházy" (1 battalion)
Du Infanterie Regiment No. 6 "Welderen" (1 battalion)
Du Infanterie Regiment No. 18 "Von Wartensleben" (1 battalion)
Du Infanterie Regiment No. 15 "De Petit" (1 battalion)
Sw Infanterie Regiment "Schmid" (2 battalions)
Du Infanterie Regiment "Oranje Gelderland" (1 battalion)
Ge Infanterie Regiment Vorst van Waldeck, No. 1 (1 battalion)
Au Grenadier Bataillon "De Briey" (1 battalion) Composed of the grenadier divisions of the Infantry Regiments No. 9 "Clerfayt", No. 30 "Ligne", and No. 58 "Vierset" (6 companies strong).
Au Grenadier Bataillon "Adorjan" (1 battalion)
Au Grenadier Bataillon "Büdöscúty" (1 battalion)
Artillery: Besides the artillery already mentioned in the OB, attached to each Dutch infantry battalion were two 3-pdr cannon.


Brownand28 Dec 2018 2:40 p.m. PST

Valmy,
I have the book you mention. The only OOB of the allied army seems almost the same as PoE has given above and I suppose they have the same origin as the wrong Dutch word "Gaardes" is used in both (it should be Garde) and in both the Dutch cavalry regiment of Hessen-Philipsthal is called a hussar regiment.

Valmy9228 Dec 2018 5:16 p.m. PST

Thanks to all who have replied. I do have the Digby smith book, also the Dutch OB referenced. I'd love to know what Charles's 7 1:2 battalions were. Which grenadiers? What else was with him? Having a hard time reconciling the Dutch only OB with the other (duplicate units). I'll follow up on the other links.
I like the other books in the series I have, but looks like it doesn't have anything I need to pay a really high price for.
Phil

von Winterfeldt29 Dec 2018 2:23 a.m. PST

you could also try :

Bernède, Allain : Aux avant – postes de Charleroi – Fleurus 1794, which is a nice book, but has no detailed OdB

also maybe of interest

A REVOLUTION IN WARFARE? THE ARMY OF THE SAMBRE AND MEUSE AND THE 1794 FLEURUS CAMPAIGN
Jordan R. Hayworth, B.A.
Thesis Prepared for the Degree of
MASTER OF ARTS
UNIVERSITY OF NORTH TEXAS

It starts way before Fleurus, already in 1793.

Unfortunately I don't have this Fleurus Book of your mentioned series either.

Prince of Essling29 Dec 2018 3:30 a.m. PST

Also other useful tomes:

Les opérations militaires sur la Sambre en 1794: Bataille de Fleurus
by Victor César Eugène Dupuis, France. Armée. Service historique PDF link

La Campagne de 1794-1795 dans les Pays-Bas , par le capitaine Louis Jouan. I. La Conquête de la Belgique (mai-juillet 1794)Author : Jouan, Louis (Capitaine)
link

The latter has a French OoB for mid-July…

von Winterfeldt29 Dec 2018 5:19 a.m. PST

yes – excellent books

Brownand31 Dec 2018 2:42 a.m. PST

Forgot, the theoretical organisation of the Dutch army is on my blog, ca-ira.blogspot.com

Prince of Essling31 Dec 2018 6:00 a.m. PST

Unfortunately the official Austrian "Krieg gegen die französische Revolution 1792-1797" was never completed. We have just 2 volumes:
Volume 1 at PDF link
which contains very useful Appendices setting out the distribution of the Austrian Army by territory in 1792 – including the breakdown of the grenadier battalions (Appendix XIX at link )
Volume 2 which covers 1792 at PDF link

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