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"1812 - Austrians vs Russians" Topic

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John Tyson20 Dec 2018 2:57 p.m. PST

Thoughts please.

I'm thinking of having a 15mm corps size battle Austrians vs Russians using the General de Brigade Deluxe rules.

I don't believe I've ever seen an Austrians vs Russians war game. Historically, I suspect there could have been some A vs R battles during the 1812 Russian campaign. I've read recently that Schwarzenberg won some minor victories; the Battle of Gorodechno for one. Considering, I do believe it would certainly be different to have an Austrian vs Russian game.

What of your thoughts please?

God bless,
John T.

Artilleryman20 Dec 2018 3:11 p.m. PST

Great idea. There were Austro-Russian clashes in 1812 and he Kaiserliks came out of it quite well. Schwarzenberg was under instructions from Metternich to show willing but not to take too many risks. A battle between these inveterate enemies of Napoleon would be interesting.

Markconz20 Dec 2018 3:23 p.m. PST

Indeed, any good sources out there on the battles and potential battles/campaigns?

79thPA Supporting Member of TMP20 Dec 2018 3:34 p.m. PST

I've thought of the same thing. I toy with Russians v anyone other than the French ideas for battles. I did find some A v R info on Google at one point in time, so a little digging will turn up some ideas. I read somewhere that the Russians and Austrians agreed not to engage in heavy fighting with each other, so contact would be a lot of demonstration but not a lot of casualties.

Personal logo ColCampbell Supporting Member of TMP20 Dec 2018 6:32 p.m. PST

Any good book on Napoleon's 1812 Russian campaign should have plenty to offer.

I've done the Gorodechno battle with my 25mm forces. It was an interesting fight.


Prince of Essling21 Dec 2018 2:17 a.m. PST

Useful book "Der Feldzug der Oesterreicher gegen Russland im Jahre 1812" by Franz Ludwig Welden , Freiherr von Franz Ludwig Welden Publication date 1870 PDF link
but no maps – see my post of 7 October2016 for some at TMP link

Another useful book covering the Saxon part of the right wing
"Die Feldzüge der Sachsen, in den Jahren 1812 und 1813" by
Cerrini di Monte Varchi, Clemens Franz Xaver von Erscheinungsort 1821

freecloud21 Dec 2018 7:57 a.m. PST

"I read somewhere that the Russians and Austrians agreed not to engage in heavy fighting with each other, so contact would be a lot of demonstration but not a lot of casualties." Ditto -it was a sort of collaborative dance with choreographed battles.

Gorodechno is interesting as it has Saxons, Austrians and Russians on 1 battlefield. We are planning to do it in the New Year using Shako 2. Also involves a major flank attack, so the Russians have to face to one flank in a hurry – but the Russian apparently knew the Austrian main body would not advance, and both sides got to write heroic histories!

Will be interesting to see how you battle goes.

Prince of Essling21 Dec 2018 3:37 p.m. PST

Digby Smith's "The Napoleonic Wars Databook" lists actions involving the Austrians as follows (I have excluded those just involving the Saxons):

8 August 1812 Rudnia (4,200 Austrians plus some 2,300 French versus unknown number of Russians)

10 August Pruszany (no details known)

12 August Gorodeczna (Austro-Saxon force 18,000 versus 38,000 Russians)

20 September Neswitsch (14 squadrons Austro-Saxon-Polish versus 9 squadrons & 2 Cossack pulks)

29 September Luboml (3,600 Austrians versus ??? Russians from Count Langeron's corps)

11 October River Muchaviec (Austrians 11,300 + Saxons 9,000 versus 24,000 Russians)

13 October Biala Podlaska (7,300 Austrians versus Russians 7 battalions, 28 squadrons & 5 Cossack pulks)

14-16 November Wolkowysk (28,000 Austro-Saxons versus 27,000 Russians)

Prince of Essling21 Dec 2018 3:59 p.m. PST

Also another useful book

"Das k.k. österreichische Auxiliarcorps im russischen Feldzuge 1812" by Wilhelm Edler von Gebler link

Prince of Essling28 Dec 2018 2:39 p.m. PST

Mitteilungen des k.u.k. Kriegsarchivs (1887)
has a useful campaign map (page 5_180_2)
Map of the battle of Poddubie 12 August 1812 (page5_180_5)

Mitteilungen des k.u.k. Kriegsarchivs (1884) link has a section on the Austrian Auxiliary corps (the attached maps ended up in the 1887 on-line copy!) pages 1 to 238.

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