Milhouse | 05 Dec 2018 1:04 p.m. PST |
Parking on the grass near the dealer hall? Out. Much of the lots filled with yellow iron and dumpsters Maybe one of the dumpsters could be symbolically set on fire |
robert piepenbrink | 05 Dec 2018 5:12 p.m. PST |
BTCTerrainman, I'm Indiana born and bred, but I was exiled to Virginia twice--maybe 15+ years total. So I have more experience of VDOT snow removal than anyone should have who hasn't been convicted of anything. (My personal theory is that Virginia owns NO snow removal equipment. Once West Virginia is through with theirs, they put magnetic VDOT signage on it and send it east.) Thing is, though, in those 15 years we only had one snow so bad I couldn't make it to Cold Wars, and that time I crashed--literally--before leaving Virginia. That was 2015, and I think I might have made Fredericksburg. It was 15 North which stopped me. Virginia might be worse for Virginians trying to make it to the main roads than would be the case for Pennsylvanians and THEIR main roads, but they'll get I-95 clear in Virginia, and that's what counts for the out of staters. As for the Virginians, if they can't get out of their additions, putting the convention in Pennsylvania isn't going to help them either. |
Double G | 05 Dec 2018 5:36 p.m. PST |
"For example, if snow clearance is a big concern, is there any kind of collaboration with the Host that could address it? Would it be possible for HMGS to pay for additional contract plows, for example? I know that HMGS should not have to do this, but is it not a lower risk option than moving the con? What possibilities are there to make the vendor hall more accessible? Again, could HMGS pay for some kind of shuttle service, whether more golf carts or even a couple of vans?" Yeah…………….if I'm HMGS, I would not touch either of those with a ten foot pole, imagine if someone slips and falls in snow or on ice (and I know, it's a huge stretch to assume there would be snow on the ground in PA in March or that it would snow during the convention as afterall, when was the last time that happened…….other than two years ago………and three years before that………and two before that……..but other than that), who's responsible for clearing the lots or shoveling the walkways. No thanks, no to any sort of liability concern. I'm sure the Host will be on the ball and have the lots cleared and sanded and all the walkways shoveled and sanded as you can clearly see with what's gone on there there since the new owners bought that tire fire of a hotel that they are on point with all things guest concerned. I remember during snowmageddon two years ago the Fred G Sanford red pick up truck they had with a spoon attached to the front that was plowing the lots so well until the transmission died in the truck, then it was everyman for himself, getting in and out of the lot was a real treat that night. And I loved the guy wearing a suit at the front desk looking all official during Fall In who was busy reading the newspaper while some poor sap was complaining to the clerk working the front desk that the phone in his room did not work, nor did any of the outlets so he could charge his phone…the guy could not be bothered to even look up from his newspaper…….but hey, who spends any time in their room during a convention, you might as well sleep outside in a tent. |
Double G | 05 Dec 2018 6:47 p.m. PST |
Oh and for what it's worth, I vote option a. I'd rather keep it at a partially renovated Host and take our chances that the weather won't impact the show vs the Ike; that is a dump too, a dump that is not currently being renovated. Maybe we'll get lucky and the contractor who's doing the renovations will have moved things along nicely and we'll all walk in there and be pleasantly surprised. One of the things I remember about the All Star complex was the paint chips that continually floated down onto the floor and into peoples food and drinks from the ceiling, paint that was probably applied to the ceiling during the 60's, as in the 1860's. No thanks to that place. |
BTCTerrainman | 05 Dec 2018 6:49 p.m. PST |
"you might as well sleep outside in a tent" George you are on to something. We can have camping on the golf course in the future. Think about the possibility of bringing in large military style tents, cots and footlockers….This could all follow around a theme…. |
Milhouse | 05 Dec 2018 6:59 p.m. PST |
If we are going to go old school and camp outdoors in a tent in the winter, shouldnt that be in Valley Forge ? |
Milhouse | 05 Dec 2018 7:01 p.m. PST |
"Mmmm….Eisenhower All Star paint chips *drool* " – Homer Simpson |
historygamer | 06 Dec 2018 6:16 a.m. PST |
The theme could be M*A*S*H! I prefer the original cast. Double G, you crack me up. Thanks for the morning laugh. :-) |
Milhouse | 06 Dec 2018 9:55 a.m. PST |
Milhouse: "George you're wrong about the Ike. In fact, I built this 1/285 scale model of the complex so you can see how we could make it work with there and the All Star" Double G: [picks up model, smashes over Milhouse's head) : "Now you're seeing all stars!" |
Double G | 06 Dec 2018 12:30 p.m. PST |
"Double G, you crack me up. Thanks for the morning laugh. :-)" Just doing my job. As you know from our many conversations, 99% of what I post on here is sarcasm, it's the Bostonian/East Coaster in me, anyone who takes anything I say on here seriously should take a stroll down to ye olde fix it shop in whatever town they live in and get that loose screw in their squash tightened……………..;). It's all good, this is wargaming, it's not life or death, unless you are real hard core gamer and life or death means a lot to you as you recreate all the battles from history with your tiny metal army guys. |
historygamer | 07 Dec 2018 9:44 a.m. PST |
Well, say what you want, but the thing is that everyone chiming in on this thread wants to see HMGS and Cold Wars succeed. Opinions may vary on how people think that should happen, but the goal is still the same. |
Milhouse | 07 Dec 2018 10:40 a.m. PST |
Totally agree historygamer . A cancelled CW is a disaster. A CW with very few attendees and no access is a bigger disaster. I couldn't get to FallIn so I really want to go. |
dapeters | 07 Dec 2018 10:58 a.m. PST |
Host could be a disaster but I am still fairly confident that I will still have a good time. |
Double G | 07 Dec 2018 1:00 p.m. PST |
"I couldn't get to FallIn so I really want to go." If you stay at the Host, bring foot, water, toilet paper, a 500 mile long extension cord, rock salt, a shovel and a tent. |
BTCTerrainman | 07 Dec 2018 3:03 p.m. PST |
Double G, I he does I think we can start calling him Radar. |
HMS Exeter | 07 Dec 2018 4:21 p.m. PST |
I got a guy in our crew who brings maybe 6 rolls of TP for the sole purpose of wrapping the painted figs he buys. |
Milhouse | 07 Dec 2018 7:19 p.m. PST |
I have a vision of Cold Wars. The Distelfink unfinished and empty except for Double G and me, at a small table surrounded by empty Coors Light cans, playing Stratego. |
HMS Exeter | 08 Dec 2018 3:16 a.m. PST |
Milhouse, sounds like 2p Sunday. |
Milhouse | 08 Dec 2018 7:27 a.m. PST |
You know us well KPinder! |
Milhouse | 08 Dec 2018 1:25 p.m. PST |
Wait, do mean 2 PM Sunday at Cold Wars….or any given Sunday ? |
rmcaras | 09 Dec 2018 5:42 p.m. PST |
Sounds like the Distelfink renovation is complete. So that part of the facility should be improved. |
robert piepenbrink | 09 Dec 2018 6:10 p.m. PST |
If they improve any more of the facility, we'll be holding the convention on the golf course. Look. I'll go. I'll even prep more miniatures and bring a flashlight when they stow me in the Black Hole of Lancaster. But expecting me to pay attention to more promises about how it's going to be in March is an insult to my intelligence. |
robert piepenbrink | 10 Dec 2018 4:00 p.m. PST |
And just this once, I appear to have erred on the side of pessimism about a convention. Heather tells me that she has personally seen the Distelfink, and that they are even now doing the wallpaper, carpet and ceiling. So, even at the present pace of Host renovation, they'll be hard-pressed not to be done by March. |
Grumble87106 | 11 Dec 2018 9:08 a.m. PST |
Re: The carpeting -- my guess, only my guess, mind you, is that the carpeting we saw at Fall-In! was temporary. Two reasons -- 1. Early Thursday afternoon I saw workers slapping the stuff down around the bar area in the lobby just to get bare sub-flooring covered. 2. It's so ugly, I can only imagine that they got the cheapest possible stuff available to quickly cover (some of) the floors before the convention. But I could be wrong. Also, if I'm ever out on Lincoln Highway east, I may just drop in and see what I can see before they run me off. |
Tumbleweed | 11 Dec 2018 8:18 p.m. PST |
Keep Cold Wars in Lancaster at the Host until an alternative can be found. Hold Fall-In in Fredericksburg per BTC's recommendation. The traffic in November is much lighter than in July. If downtown Lancaster works out this year, then leave Historicon there. The Eisenhower is a sentimental favorite of mine, but isn't big enough any more. |
TSD101 | 12 Dec 2018 5:25 a.m. PST |
Hold Fall-In in Fredericksburg per BTC's recommendation. Fall In is already set for Valley Forge. Fredericksburg is not going to happen. I can't fathom how that hasn't sunk in yet after Historicon attendance cratered while there. |
historygamer | 12 Dec 2018 5:46 a.m. PST |
It makes no sense to move the smallest con to the most expensive facility. And the Ike isn't big enough for what? It is roughly the same size as the Host used to be, and who knows how big the Host is now? Traffic is never lighter on I-95, morning, noon, night, or fall. I am pretty sure Oqqoquan in some Indian dialect means traffic jam. Hcon at the Host got an 8.5% increase in attendance. Nice. |
billclo | 12 Dec 2018 5:54 a.m. PST |
Having travelled on I95 in the DC area twice in the past couple of years, there is NO way I will ever do it again. Makes no difference what time of day I use it, its always a parking lot from north of DC (I-270) all the way to the Fredericksburg area. What should be about 2.5 hrs becomes close to 5 hours. So while I can consider going to Valley Forge, there is no way I would ever go to Fredericksburg. |
Double G | 12 Dec 2018 1:26 p.m. PST |
"Fredericksburg is not going to happen. I can't fathom how that hasn't sunk in yet after Historicon attendance cratered while there." Yeah, people need to give up that ghost, the attendees they lost moving it south of the Delaware River Bridge were not replaced by the thousands of southern gamers who wanted a convention in their neck of the woods. Fall In there would be a fiscal disaster. I hope Valley Forge works out, having it there for CW and FI and Historicon in downtown Lancaster wouldn't be the end of the world. Maybe in a year or ten the Host will get their heads and asses wired together and as long as they don't raise their fees through the roof, that location could be explored again. It really is ideal; a large enough dealer hall, plenty of room for gaming, plenty of room for those of you who want to flea, lots of eating choices and hotels in the area, easy to get to, not very congested traffic wise. |
Grumble87106 | 12 Dec 2018 4:02 p.m. PST |
" [Host] really is ideal; a large enough dealer hall, plenty of room for gaming, plenty of room for those of you who want to flea, lots of eating choices and hotels in the area, easy to get to, not very congested traffic wise. Full disclosure: I'd like to keep at least some of the conventions at the Host because it's located exactly six miles from my house. But if I didn't live close by and had to look for lodging, perhaps my mind would change. ;-) Downtown Convention Center in Lancaster works for me too. That's only one mile away. |
Bowman | 13 Dec 2018 6:09 a.m. PST |
I'd go back to Fredericksburg. I did enjoy it there. It's a lot farther away from me but the only redeeming part of the drive is that I come down the back way and only spend 10-15 minutes on I-95. However, I agree with those that claim Fall-In at F'burg would be a fiscal disaster. HG's first sentence above hits the nail on the head. It's a dumb idea. I also hope that the Host gets it's act together and that we can return to it some day. A rejuvenated Host would really be ideal, especially for Fall-In, IMO. The biggest hurdle is what happens to the dealer hall. I also find the fact that Historicon had a 8.5% increase in attendance quite surprising, considering the vitriol hurled at the Host. Impressive. I expect some growing pains at the new venue but I'm excited about Historicon in 2019. |
Grumble87106 | 13 Dec 2018 8:22 a.m. PST |
I'd go back to Fredericksburg. I did enjoy it there. It's a lot farther away from me but the only redeeming part of the drive is that I come down the back way and only spend 10-15 minutes on I-95. I liked that drive on US 15. And on the way back on Sunday afternoon, there was always a good farmer's market open. One of the few places I could buy purslane -- except for picking my own in my sister-in-law's back yard in Lancaster. All the games I put on in Fredericksburg were in a club room, so I never had to deal with standing for hours on the bare concrete in the main hall. And I liked the accommodations with kitchenette at the Homewood Suites. But I agree that having Fall-In! there would be difficult for the reasons stated above. <Sigh> |
ARMY Strong | 13 Dec 2018 1:49 p.m. PST |
Gettysburg, but what does it matter the BOD doesn't listen to anyone anyway. |
Double G | 13 Dec 2018 4:02 p.m. PST |
"Gettysburg, but what does it matter the BOD doesn't listen to anyone anyway." Sorry you feel that way, I've found John and Dave to be extremely open to discussing anything convention related, very frank and willing to listen and take comments, thoughts, suggestions and ideas into consideration, two top shelf guys. Your mileage may vary. |
BTCTerrainman | 13 Dec 2018 5:36 p.m. PST |
I am with Double G. I have found that most of the current BOD members seek out differences of opinion and are generally interested in what we think. This is all we can ask. Their decisions may not always agree with everyone, but I am convinced they are seeking out information before finalizing a decision. |
Bowman | 14 Dec 2018 5:41 a.m. PST |
Gettysburg, but what does it matter the BOD doesn't listen to anyone anyway. Seriously? |
Rotundo | 14 Dec 2018 7:16 a.m. PST |
Army Strong, I hate to pile on but yeah, I am a virtual nobody in this hobby yet I have been approached several times to get an "everyman's" opinion. I would say to you perhaps you should interduce yourself to the current BOD. These guys are fairly open, |
Bowman | 14 Dec 2018 8:44 a.m. PST |
I am a virtual nobody in this hobby….. Better than being an actual nobody, my friend |
dapeters | 17 Dec 2018 10:49 a.m. PST |
"…the attendees they lost moving it south of the Delaware River Bridge were not replaced by the thousands of southern gamers…" This was from the get go a dubious idea, but what was worse was the BOD "let them eat cake" attitude of the time. Who knows if they had not offended so many northern members maybe numbers would have been better. |
civildisobedience | 17 Dec 2018 3:13 p.m. PST |
I have to agree on the then-BOD. What a bunch of incompetent, arrogant (better stop there…) Whatever the opinion on locations and plans, the current BOD is a massive, massive improvement. |
TSD101 | 17 Dec 2018 6:52 p.m. PST |
I hear Baltimore is available. Sorry, I'll show myself out. |
dapeters | 19 Dec 2018 9:13 a.m. PST |
Agreed and just another reason why some folks should not be voted back on the board. |
vonLoudon | 12 Jan 2019 5:08 p.m. PST |
I had one meal. It's hard to screw up hot dogs. But the meals and the inconveniences would have to change for me. |