"Kennedy Battle Group 1989" Topic

I'm pulling together a scenario for the 1989 Gulf of Sidra Incident and wondered if anyone could help me.

Aside from the USS Kennedy, what other US ships formed the CVBG please?

I thought this would be fairly easy to find on t'interweb, but it's not.

Any info gratefully received.

Nick

there was a S&T mag around that time that had a hypothetical scenario

If I remember right, one of the old Harpoon supplements had a Gulf of Sidra scenario in it.

Sorry, no luck here either. It appears there are some major gaps in the record-keeping prior to 1997 on some of these sites as far as escorts are concerned:

link

link

No problem with the lists of embarked air squadrons during the various deployments though, I'll give them that.

I got the one from the Harpoon Naval review 1994 it is from 1986

IIRC, from that period – height of the Cold War, there were about 10 – 12 escorts per carrier, plus a couple of LA class hunter-killer subs too, which you can choose to put on the table, or just keep beneath the sea, so to speak.

For major ops where they suspected trouble, I imagine they might add in more vessels and subs to support. Probably very likely in the Med., due to heavy Soviet activity there from time to time.

There was also another US carrier battle group in the area too, for one of the Gulf of Sidra engagements. Can't recall if it was for this one, or the other one.

I suspect there'd be a couple of Ticonderoga cruisers in the battle group, and a couple of OH Perry's too, along with various other escorts.

That should get you at least part way there.

Hope it helps.

You'd probably be looking at 2 Ticonderoga-class CGs, 4 Spruance-class or Kidd-class DDs, and probably another 4 Perry-class FFGs, plus a 688 or two.

Not sure about names or specifics, and good luck finding which subs were assigned. The subs would be operating well away from the carrier, with the understanding that any sub found close to the carrier was assumed hostile.

interesting question. In 1989 the US had
13 Super carriers (well, 11 plus two Midways)
4 Battleships
So you figure 17 taskforces needing escorts
9 CGN
13 Tico Cruisers
18 Leahy's and Belknaps
4 Kidd DDG
10 Coontz DDG
23 Adams DDG
31 Spruance DD
50 Perry FFG
46 Knox FF
So if you end up guessing I'd think you'd get at most one Tico, 1 or 2 Spruance, plus three older CG or DDG. Plus one SSN, I think that was the normal deployment. If you don't have much lead time the escorts could be as few as three, the rest on good will visits. The frigates would be used for convoy escort, so I wouldn't expect them in the battlegroup during operations even if they were part of it for administrative purposes. It's entirely possible a supply ship would be with the group if the op is unplanned. (this based on the 89-90 Janes and my vague recollections of a Med cruise in the late 80's with the Ike)

@Murv: thank you for that! (though you're forgetting any escorts assigned to gator freighters) How embarrassing, I'd forgotten about the CGNs.

OK, the CGNs would be dedicated carrier escorts, probably one per CVN. Kennedy was conventionally-powered, though, so she'd have non-nuclear escorts.

The battleships normally had "one Ticonderoga-class cruiser, one Kidd-class destroyer or Arleigh Burke-class destroyer, one Spruance-class destroyer, three Oliver Hazard Perry-class frigates and one support ship, such as a fleet oiler," for escort group. (quoting from Wiki) No Burkes in service in 1989.

There'd also be one Tico or CGN in every battlegroup for commanding the escort group.

So, given the Kennedy was conventionally powered, probably one Tico, one Leahy/Belknap, quite probably one or more of the Kidds (due to air conditioning and other improvements for hot weather ops), and probably 4 ASW escorts (frigates or DDs).

Gentlemen,

As always I am in awe of the detailed knowledge shared on this forum.

I've done a little more digging and found this for the 1986 US strikes on Libya, which gives an idea of composition for the America, Coral Sea and Saratoga CVBGs, which bearing in mind events in 1986, may make a better 'what if' scenario, especially as the Saratoga CVBG did engage surface combatants.

The link is here ( link ) and was scanned from a typewritten original from the US Dept. of Defense (oh, as an Englishman how writing that with an 's' pains me!). As it seems to have been transferred by some sort of character reader there are lots of errors (transposing '6' for 'G', etc). I have corrected these below but might have missed some.

PROJECTED CVBG COMPOSITION

USS AMERICA
USS TICONDEROGA (CG-47 AEGIS)
USS DALE (CG-19)
USS FARRAGUT (DDG-37)
USS KING (DDG-41)
USS HALYBURTON (FFG-4O)
USS ALYWIN (FF-1081)
USS PHARRIS (FF-1094)
USS VREELAND (FF-1068)

USS CORAL SFA
USS YORKTOWN (CG-48 AEGIS)
USS RICHMOND K TURNER (CG-20)
USS SCOTT (DD6-995)
USS CARON (DD-970)
USS DE HERT (FFG-45)
USS DONALD B BEARY (FF-1085)
USS PAUL (FF-1080)
USS AINSWORTH (FF-1090)
USS GARCIA (FF-I040)

USS SARATOGA
USS BIDDLE (CG-34)
USS JACK WILLIAMS (FFG-24)
USS CAPODANNO (FF-1093)
USS JESSE L BROWN (FF-I089)

Best wishes,

Nick

Nice find, Bozkashi! That's about what I expected, though lighter on the DD/DDGs than I had thought.

Subs are a major threat to a carrier, especially in relatively restricted waters like the Med. That's why there are so many frigates in the escort groups (3-5).

I'm also really surprised at the very small escort group for the Saratoga.

BTW, the Coontz class DDG's were all in the Atlantic, with more CG's (Leahy and Belknap) in the Pacific to compensate.

FF's and FFG's were too slow to keep up with a CVBG. They were in the area doing other things but not screening the carrier per se. The frigates would more likely be found screening the AO/AOE/AE replenishment vessels or the Amphibs. If you were going to try and tackle a carrier, you could count on 5-6 of the aforementioned CG/CGN/DD/DDG to ruin your day, not to mention a couple of 688's with bad intentions.

BTW, the Coontz class DDG's were all in the Atlantic, with more CG's (Leahy and Belknap) in the Pacific to compensate.

Both USS Richmond K. Turner (CG-20)-Leahy Class and USS Wainwright (CG-28)-Belknap Class, were both homeported in Charleston at that time.

I'm pretty sure that this book has the exact breakdown of USN CV groups in the Gulf War: link

This sounds very interesting. I served on the JFK from 80-83, including several forays across the "line of death." Over a beer or two,I can tell some decent sea stories about it!

Lascaris – I'd buy you a beer or two to hear them! Unfortunately, being in the UK, it's a bit far to come