"Black Tree Design USA - Extremly Bad Service!" Topic

We recently held Texas' biggest historical miniature war-gaming convention – MillenniumCon Texas – in Austin 9-11 November. John Olson from BTD reserved a booth and failed to show, he also did not have the courtesy to call or e-mail his cancellation. I had to turn away 4 vendors since we had sold out our space 3 months out. This is the last time I will deal with this incompetent company.

I will never buy their products again and as President of LSHM Texas (750 members across the state) I will let the membership know how they treated us and recommend they also stop buying their products.

Their table sat empty all weekend.

Charles Torok
President LSHM
Director MillenniumCon Texas

Wow, awfully sorry to hear this.

Did he pay for the booth?

Sometimes stuff happens at the last minute.

I would have been nice of him to call, or e-mail, but perhaps he didn't have the contact info needed.

Charlie, I have dealt with John several times in the past and always found him to be extremely courteous and competent.

I would suggest that you at least give him a chance to explain before you lock and load. It's very much out of character for the person that I know, so perhaps he has a valid reason.

You can always release the hounds after hearing what he has to say.

And where are my Indians?

I saw where John has been in & out of the hospital with some health problems lately.

Overreacting much! You're going to feel bad if something unfortunate befell him.

I always get great service from Black Tree.

My husband likes BTD and orders from them quite a little bit. Always good service.

I'm glad such an important man acted so decisively. We need more shooting first and asking questions later.

This does seem like a gross overreaction to what could very well be a last minute, unexpected event. I don't think a vendor would just arbitrarily make the decision not to attend what you say is the largest historical gaming event in the state if he had previously reserved a booth.

In addition to expressing surprise above I should have added that I too have always had excellent service from them. Seems most others have as well. Perhaps an apology is in order, and not from BTD USA.

Just one mans opinion here, this was the only black mark on a very successful convention. There are so many great vendors / companies / manufacturers out there who will get my business.

John did respond, after the fact, and it took me to contact him – a very poor excuse. I had one other vendor cancel late but he had the courtesy to contact me as soon as he could (a good business practice). My $$ will go to great companies like Warlord Games, Frontline Games, Old Glory, Raven Banner Games, Shogun Miniatures, Sherwood Wargames, etc…..

Trust me, this is not a fly off the handle response by me – if you know me I am a very reserved and calm guy, but this was a horrible way to treat a customer – thus why I posted this. They and he lost a lot of customers here in Texas – and he is based in Texas – go figure!!!!

Charlie Torok

How quickly they forget good customer service etiquette.

Good customer service should be rewarded, bad customer service should be exposed and shunned. My Black Tree Designs shopping days are over!

No, you are overreacting. Mistakes happen and people are human. Trying to get everyone to boycott his business because he didn't show at your con says more about you than him.

I had to turn away 4 vendors since we had sold out our space 3 months out.

They should have committed earlier. Actions have consequences, or in this case, no action has consequences.

If the booth was paid for and there is no contract saying that the purchase must show up and exhibit at the con, you don't have much of an argument.

Assuming no such contract clause, if the vendor paid for the space he can show whatever he likes – including nothing at all. If all he wanted to do was throw out catalogs in his area or put up a computer where customers could order online that is his call.

Clearly, the people putting on the con hope all vendors put their best foot forward and have amazing displays to enthrall the masses. Then again, it is their business to run as they see fit, not yours.

In any event, congrats on a successful convention. Sounds like you might need a bigger venue next year to accommodate all the booth revenue you lost from vendors.

Charlie,

I'm with Doctor X on this one. Also please note if John paid for the booth then in this particular situation it makes him YOUR customer. Whether he wants to show up or not is up to him. Whether he wants to tell you or not, is up to him. I don't think he really owes anyone a reason and in all reality it doesn't matter. It is not up to us to judge whether someone's reasoning is legitimate or not, everyone has different views of what is important.

If anyone is being treated badly here it is John and Black Tree. I can only guess what the most people's response will be what the President says don't buy from this vendor because he didn't show up for something he paid for……I think you will find similar reactions from your membership as you've seen here on TMP. People like John, people like Black Tree, and that fondness for the company will probably be amplified because he's in Texas.

Congrats on a great show. It sounds like there weren't any "black marks" at all and everything ran as smoothly as one might expect.

I hope you have a great Thanksgiving and with you continued success on promoting the hobby of miniature wargaming.

Huge overreaction especially if he paid for the space. Things happen and going way of threatening libel and slander may not be the best way to "get back at him".

MrTorok can clear up one condition, if the booth WAS paid for. Then the only loss was providing attendees with the maximum of product offerings.

If there was no prepayment, then the convention experienced some financial loss. How much, and in context of total revenues/cost he does not say.

That would put Mr. Torok's reaction in a clearer light.

Whether one thinks it's an over reaction or not, is still a personal take.

I attended the Con and was looking forward to seeing Black Tree there – it was advertised in the literature that they would be attending. I was disappointed when they didn't show up, although I didn't say anything to any of the organizers. I can understand Charlie's disappointment. I'm not taking it so hard, but then I didn't spend my personal time and resources organizing and running the Con.

By the way Charlie, I had a great time. Thanks!

"I had to turn away 4 vendors since we had ***sold out*** our space 3 months out."

That really sounds like he paid.

I would assume payment/deposit would have been made BEFORE the Convention and before the Programs are created/finalized.

Since you make a big deal of turning people away who may have been able to pay as well.

link

Does the sign up page go to a check out cart? I see a Paypal option, but also a Cash/Check option. No CC option.

No vendor will fail to turn up lightly – it is lost money and a lost advertising opportunity…

Things go wrong – people are ill, vans break down, etc , etc.

I can't see that Black Tree make a habit of this so I think your reaction is completely over the top…

I have never had a single problem with BTD. I have ordered from him a number of times and can't say I have had any reason to complain. He is top notch, and the one time my order did not come complete, I received a hand written note apologizing because two packs were backordered. I am definitely a happy customer. Sorry you had a bad experience….

Did he pay for his booth or not?

It is interesting how speculation, rumour and innuendo can run rampant.

Black Tree Design has never given me any problems and when there has been an issue of a certain figure set being out of stock they go out of their way to make up for it!

Simply put, not showing up is not "bad service".

Having time to think about the original poster's comments and subsequent follow-up post, I believe Charles Took really deserves to give us an explanation.

He made these allegations and judgements in public, so his responses need to be in public as well.

Whether an excuse is seen to be "very poor" or not, unless stated to, he should at least have the courtesy to share this.

Putting this in writing is far more serious than mere scuttlebutt among friends sitting around sharing a pint. This really enters the realm of liable.

Especially since the original poster (OP) has made allegations of trying to ensure BTD loses customers and therefore money which is income.

I wouldn't want to be in the OP's shoes as I know what the litigation circles are like in the USA.

Simply having someone not show up at a show that was unable to plan to accommodate all the potential vendor's is far from BTD's fault. As a former special events coordinator, I can tell you a certain percentage of "no-shows" is always par for the course and is to be factored in. Neglecting to do that is just, well, negligence.

'… the realm of libel.'

Not sure if the OP is busy with the holidays, or if he didn't get the torch and pitchfork response he hoped he would.

Yes, things have gone quiet, haven't they.