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"9e 'hussards rouges' question" Topic


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703 hits since 7 Nov 2018
©1994-2018 Bill Armintrout
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42flanker07 Nov 2018 11:14 p.m. PST

Greetings, all. I should be gratefully for guidance as to where I might find images illustrating the uniform of the 9e 'hussards rouges' (formerly 10e) in the period 1794-95.
Contemporary images would be a bonus.
Many thanks.
JF

Rakkasan07 Nov 2018 11:44 p.m. PST

This may help:
link

Prince of Essling07 Nov 2018 11:51 p.m. PST

Try these illustrations by Fort:
link
link
link

Prince of Essling08 Nov 2018 1:29 a.m. PST

Ignore my links above as according to Wiki:
9th Hussar Regiment (France)

"The regiment's ancestry is drawn from two separate units, one originating in a squadron of the Hussards de la Liberté and the other in the Régiment des Guides.

The Revolutionary Wars
Its origins lay in the Hussards de la Liberté, set up on 2 September 1792 and by a royal decree dated 23 November 1792. This unit was divided into two squadrons of 200 men each (the first squadron made up of volunteers from Paris and the second from volunteers from Lille) and came ninth in the army order of precedence by a decree of the French National Convention of 4 June 1793. On 25 March 1793, that unit's second squadron became the 10th Hussar Regiment (whilst on 1 May 1794 the first squadron of the Hussards de la Liberté became the 7e régiment bis de hussards). On 4 June 1794, after the defection of the 4th Hussar Regiment, the 10th Hussar Regiment was re-numbered as the 9th Hussar Regiment. In 1795, the regiment was involved in the Vendée Revolt. It was part of the Army of the Rhine in 1796 and the Army of the Danube in 1798. It was known as the Hussards Rouges or Red Hussars after its scarlet dolmans."

Prince of Essling08 Nov 2018 3:08 a.m. PST

Try this for 1795: link

Prince of Essling08 Nov 2018 5:45 a.m. PST

For a modern book see
André Jouineau et Jean-Marie Mongin, "Les hussards français, Tome 1, De l'Ancien Régime à l'Empire", Paris, Éditions Histoire et collection, 2004

English version of the above:
"French Hussars (1): From the "Ancien Regime" to the Empire (Officers and Soldiers №5)"
This book details the uniforms of soldiers, non-comissioned officers and officers of the Hussars. This first volume details the Hussar regiments uniforms from 1786 to 1804. Uniforms are shown in full colour, their flags, equipment and organization are faithfully depicted using the most modern technics – computer graphics.


Also see "Historique du 9e régiment de hussards et des guides de la garde" Commandant Ogier d'Ivry – 1891 link
picture of uniform at
link

Frederick Supporting Member of TMP08 Nov 2018 6:06 a.m. PST

For a cheap old school view, nothing beats the New York Public Library digital collection

link

Prince of Essling08 Nov 2018 7:07 a.m. PST

Also a Rigo print at

picture

42flanker08 Nov 2018 12:15 p.m. PST

Thanks for that information, gentlemen all. Some very nice images there.

Hard information does seem to be elusive, though, with what appears to be a degree of confusion in some places, arising I suspect from the changes of number in the early years.

Also, French regimental historians of the C19th do appear to be somewhat bonkers; compared to the deceptive sang froid of their British counterparts! I love Ogie d'Ivry's throwaway claim in 'Historique de 9e Hussards' that the hussars involved in the surrender of the Dutch fleet at Texel were "more than likely ours," since the 9e Hussards were, he claims, the only hussars available. The good Major evidently had not had the benefit of reading Lahure's claims for the 8e Hussards.

Anyway, as a result, opinions on uniform details do vary. However, to my surprise. 'Les Hussards Francais' is held by the British Library (You never can be sure) so I shall be interested to see what Messrs Jouineau & Mongin have to tell me.

Merci boocoops

42flanker08 Nov 2018 11:48 p.m. PST

A Epinal print from the late C19th

link

"Print the legend…"

Prince of Essling09 Nov 2018 12:07 a.m. PST

@42flanker

Nice print – if you let me have an e-mail address that takes attachments I will send you a pdf of the Joineau/Mongin section on the 9th Hussars. My address is prinzessling at gmail.com.

Prince of Essling09 Nov 2018 6:12 a.m. PST

Seizure of the Dutch fleet – see link

"….Dans les opérations qui ont lieu pour réduire les places de la Hollande septentrionale, le 5e Hussards va être mêlé à une action de guerre que l'on peut dire unique dans les fastes de la cavalerie. Il a été attaché, comme Cavalerie de corps, à un fort détachement d'armée confié au Général Salme, à ce moment dépourvu de cavalerie, qui doit marcher vers le nord pour soumettre les places de la Zélande. Le 19 janvier, le Général Salme est informé qu'une notable partie de la flotte de guerre hollandaise est bloquée par les glaces dans l'embouchure du Texel. Il décide de s'en rendre maître.

Le Général Salme envoie un détachement pris dans son avant-garde et composé des Escadrons du 5e Hussards, du 3e Bataillon de Chasseurs belges, commandé par le Chef de Bataillon Lahure, et deux pièces d'artillerie légère. Chaque cavalier prend en croupe un Chasseur et le Régiment se détache à vive allure. Aussitôt en vue de la flotte immobilisée, le 5e Hussards se déploie sur la glace et prend la formation de la charge, les vaisseaux étant sommés de se rendre. Il est bien clair qu'il ne songe nullement à se livrer sur des vaisseaux de ligne à une attaque aussi insensée, mais le prestige de notre cavalerie est tel qu'une menace aussi peu redoutable suffit à impressionner l'Amiral hollandais. Les vaisseaux amènent leur pavillon et leur équipage se rend à cette poignée de cavaliers sans aucune résistance. La petite colonne victorieuse, capture 12 navires de 32 à 72 canons et réalise ainsi un fait d'armes sans précédent : une flotte prise par de la cavalerie. Jamais pareille prouesse n'avait été accomplie par des hussards. Ceux du 5e renouvelleront onze ans plus tard un haut fait non moins surprenant en enlevant, avec la Brigade Lasalle dont il faisait partie, la place forte de Stettin défendue par une importante garnison à un nombre considérable de canons."

42flanker10 Nov 2018 5:32 a.m. PST

Your Esslingness, many thanks for the offer; I had a look at the Joineau/Mongin in the library yesterday. A bit surprised to find Funken quoted as a source, presumably drawing on Kobell but I am a novice in this area.

However, there seems to be little hard information before 1796. Ditto in 'Nos Hussards' L. Fallou 1902 (thanks to Paul le Met), which is a sober catalogue of official records relating to the organisation and equipping of the hussar regiments

As for the Texel affair, it has been claimed on behalf of three French hussar regiments, at different times and with greater or lesser authority, that they were the regiment involved in the Texel affair: the 5e, 8e & 9e. There is no prima facie evidence one way or the other. The records are silent. It seems that, quite late in the day, the 5e Hussards managed to become the regiment recognised officially.

Lahure, commander of the 'combat team' that was sent by Salme to secure the Dutch ships, asserted in 1840 that it was a detachment of the 8e Hussards who accompanied his Chasseurs (although they are recorded as attached to Delmas' 6e Div., who were bringing up the rear from the Waal).

The 9e Hussards seem to have thrown their hat into the ring so as not be left out.

'La Guerre de Hollande et l'affaire du Texel', par Ed. de Bonnal,. is a somewhat fevered rant in favour of Lahure and the 8e Hussards but informative nonetheless-
link

Lahure is the only military eye-witness to make a claim for any regiment. His testimony, whilst self-serving and exaggerated to a degree (see below) is unlikely, one might think, to have got the wrong regiment. He was a light infantry man so, while being loyal to those he served alongside, really had no axe to grind. (His memoirs are, however, decidedly sketchy in relation to time and place).

The bottom line seems to be that there wasn't a great deal of glory for anybody to claim, since the role of Lahure and his column in the securing of the Dutch ships, whoever he had with him, was greatly exaggerated (Not least by the aged General Lahure in 1840). This was partly as a result of the genuinely epic nature of the French victory in their mid-winter campaign, as well as of Republican propaganda.

This is well laid out here,

link

The rest is history. Or not.

dibble Supporting Member of TMP10 Nov 2018 7:09 p.m. PST

Paul :)

HappyHussar10 Nov 2018 8:48 p.m. PST

Mirletons for the earlier period .. the shako came in much later …

Paul Demet10 Nov 2018 10:52 p.m. PST

Hello JF

There is an interesting article in Tradition Magazine No 123 (June 1997): 'Le 1er Escadron du 8eme Hussrds a Texel' (please excuse lack of accents) by Robert Alazet. This reproduces a document by the son of a soldier in the regiment and clearly states that the cavalry in question were the 8th, generally said to have been commanded by Marulaz. A recent biography of Marulaz, based on his papers and unpublished memoirs by Jean Noubel (Un grand general de l'Empire Marulaz) notes that his memoirs do not refer to the incident, possibly as it was not considered worth mentioning (!)

42flanker11 Nov 2018 11:22 a.m. PST

Thanks for these, messieurs .

I see Alazel suggests that the 8e Hussards det.was commanded by Chef d'escadron Philippe Christophe, which might explain Marulaz' silence, although Lahure also has Marulaz in command of the Texel detachment. In his memoirs Lahure makes him the hero of a number of exploits during the 1793-95 campaign. Perhaps his memory was playing tricks, although Marulaz was clearly a leader in the heroic mould.

Interestingly, the 'Historique de 8e Hussards' (1891) does not mention the Helder/Texel episode, either.

Ed. de Bonnal, in his 'Guerre du Hollande et l'Affaire du Texel' (1886) points this out and suggests that, when official regimental histories were being set down in the later C19th, the authorities in the French Ministre de la Guerre, decided that the 5e Hussards, being the most numerous regiment in the Armée du Nord, in the absence of official which might explain the detailed account that appears in 'Historiques de 5e Hussards' that you posted on 9 Nov, Prince Essling.

As the 'Tradition' article points out, the 5e Hussards were in Utrecht on the relevant date and the 9e Hussards- our hussards rouges, attached to Macdonald, were at Woerden.

The detailed first-hand accounts in Lahure's memoirs and referenced in the Brodin letter published in 'Tradition', while undoubtedly suggesting a more dynamic encounter on the ice than detectable in the Dutch sources, do make out a persuasive case for the light horse at Texel coming from8e Hussards rather than another regiment.

Next:
Who captured the 'Invincible Standard' at Alexandria?
Who took the Eagle of the 22e Ligne at Salamanca?
Who burnt down the White House?

42flanker11 Nov 2018 3:23 p.m. PST

lost a bit there…

" the authorities in the French Ministre de la Guerre decided that the 5e Hussards, being th emost numerous regiment in the A de N, in the absence of official information should be given the credit for the Texel affair…."

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