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"Spanish organization 1808-10" Topic


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444 hits since 5 Nov 2018
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Comments or corrections?

ecaminis Supporting Member of TMP05 Nov 2018 5:04 p.m. PST

I finished quite a few Spanish units last month and now I am looking to get commanders for them. Looking at the few orders of battle I have I do not see any brigades in them. Did the Spanish only have divisional commanders?

Another question on the same area, I usually mount brigade commanders 1 figure per stand and division leaders 2 per stand. If the Spanish only have small divisions should I treat their leaders like Brigade leaders or Division leaders?

timurilank06 Nov 2018 4:29 a.m. PST

It is possible that only the divisional commanders are mentioned in the archives.

Looking at different lists, the number of battalions present is the same if not more than the French and therefore likely that brigade commanders would be present.

My own Spanish collection is patterned after this.
TMP link

Personal logo Whirlwind Supporting Member of TMP06 Nov 2018 6:41 a.m. PST

They did use brigades, and have brigadiers, but annoyingly the orders of battle passed down seem to mainly just list the regiments in their divisional structure. However, Nafziger (list 809JSBH) has the following structure for the Spanish lst Army of the Right, October l809:

Vanguard: Brigadier O'Donnell
Batallon de granaderos del ejercito (32/592)
(converged grenadiers of the army)
2nd Regiment de Saboya (25/962)
Det/Santa Fee Infantry Regiment (3/l43)
Wimpffen (Swiss) Infantry Regiment (l3/3l9)

Division: Mariscal de campo Garcia y Loygorry

Brigade: Brigadier Iranzo
2nd Division of Provincial Grenadiers (28/7ll)
Soria Infantry Regiment (39/502)
Granaderos de Kayser (4/l58)

Brigade: Brigadier Conde de Pino-Hermoso
2nd Batallon de cazadores de Orihuela (l9/875)
4th Batallon de Marina (29/632)
Voluntarios de Tarragona (20/593)
lst Tercio de Tarragona (29/8l5)

Division: Mariscal de campo Garcia Conde

Brigade: Brigadier Porta
lst Division de granaderos provinciales (2l/7l3)
lst Batallon de Granada (l8/673)
l/,2/Fernando VII Infantry Regiment (28/585)
Zey (Swiss) Infantry Regiment (40/646)

Brigade: Brigadier Begines de los Rios
Almansa Infantry Regiment (27/902)
Almeria Infantry Regiment (57/l,324)
3rd Sapper Company (7/23l)

Division: Mariscal de campo Cuadrado

Brigade: Brigadier Wimpffen
lst Batallon de Iliberia (24/l58)
2nd Tercio de Lerida (25/7l9)
2nd Tercio de Tarragona (3l/798)
2nd Horse Artillery Company (2/30)

Cavalry:
Numancia Cavalry Regiment (l)(8/ll3)
l/,2/Olivencia Cavalry Regiment (l6/306)
Husares de Granada (l6/265)

(Gomez de Arteche Y Moro, La Guerra de la Independencia, Madrid,l883)

The order of battle for Alcaniz seems to use 'columns' instead of 'brigades', so that seems to be a possible alternative sub-divisional structure, or at least nomenclature, too.

Prince of Essling06 Nov 2018 9:14 a.m. PST

"Estados de la organización y fuerza de los ejércitos españoles beligerantes en la península, durante la guerra de España contra Bonaparte" link contains some of the breakdown – particularly for later in the war.

timurilank06 Nov 2018 11:15 a.m. PST

That link has a good number of Spanish material. Thanks for that.

ferg98106 Nov 2018 11:54 a.m. PST

I've found a similar issue with my Spanish armies

I just assumed there was Brigade commanders but the record keeping wasn't too thorough – hardly surprising when you consider the mess the country was in during 1808

Regards

J

Teppsta06 Nov 2018 4:14 p.m. PST

Whirlwind – what does the first number in each pair mean? I'm guessing the 2nd number is unit size.

Personal logo Doctor X Supporting Member of TMP06 Nov 2018 7:45 p.m. PST

First number is officers

Personal logo McLaddie Supporting Member of TMP07 Nov 2018 8:29 p.m. PST

It has to do with how the brigades were formed. Divisional commanders had a set of colonels and major generals. When the divisional commander needed to [or decided to], he would form brigades however he wanted to…sort of like the column formation process you see in other Allied armies up to 1806. That means that brigades were ad hoc organizations without any permanent status…which is why "the record keeping wasn't too thorough."

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