Help support TMP


"Books detailing Conquistadores' arms and armour?" Topic


9 Posts

All members in good standing are free to post here. Opinions expressed here are solely those of the posters, and have not been cleared with nor are they endorsed by The Miniatures Page.

In order to respect possible copyright issues, when quoting from a book or article, please quote no more than three paragraphs.

For more information, see the TMP FAQ.


Back to the Renaissance Discussion Message Board


Areas of Interest

Renaissance

Featured Hobby News Article


Featured Recent Link


Featured Ruleset

The Three Must Get Beer's


Rating: gold star gold star gold star gold star gold star gold star gold star gold star gold star gold star 


Featured Showcase Article

Fighting 15's Teutonic Order Command 1410

Command figures for the 1410 Teutonics.


Featured Book Review


299 hits since 27 Jul 2005
©1994-2026 Bill Armintrout
Comments or corrections?


TMP logo

Membership

Please sign in to your membership account, or, if you are not yet a member, please sign up for your free membership account.
Bronze Goat27 Jul 2005 3:03 p.m. PST

Any alternatives to the Ospreys?

Please don't mention the Foundry titles as I am certainly not drunk or habitually taking mind altering drugs so GBP40.00 does not seem to me to be "good value".

Suggestions appreciated.

Chronofus27 Jul 2005 11:51 p.m. PST

I got my Foundry book for about $40US via the Ebay online stores section just recently.

You will need to define 'detailing.'

The Foundry book is very very nice as a good overview, I was quite impressed with it in general, though all illustrations are in B&W. It has 4 pages on the early pirates and about 6 pages on the conquistadors.

If you're after a general view of them, I'd suggest googling Florentine Codex and Lienzo de Tlaxcala and browse through what images you can find.

If in the US or UK, definately use your inter library loan service and borrow book 12 of the Florentine Codex and Duran's History of New Spain. Unfortunately the more common Dibble & Anderson Florentine version has only B&W pictures, which is a major let down for a University reproduction and translation of such an important book.

If you are simply after written text of them, consider Bernal Diaz's account (from Penguin) and the account of the Anonymous Conquistador and again Duran and Florentine Book 12. They are scant on genuine detail, but do give broad info, which I have listed below. I have most of this footnoted in a word document, so if you require it in a better format with actual book references et al, just drop me at line at chronofus at chronofus dot net

So far I have only broadly collated the Spanish info, but what I have may be of some use.

My apologies for the long text below, it may be of use to someone in its note form. It is most of the direct quotes from original sources that I can find.

Bernal Diaz mentions that during the Cortes expedition, the Spanish wore their armour at all times, even while asleep, for they were ever fearful of their lives. "I say that we were on alert, but I do not have to repeat this so often, since we never took off our armour, gorgets, or leggings by night or day… We slept in our armour and sandals with our weapons close by."

He goes as far as mentioning that while they held Montezuma captive, they were in the habit of doffing their helm. "I was a young man in those days and I used to doff my helmet very respectfully every time I went on guard or entered [Montezuma's] presence, and later Doffing our helmets most respectfully, we expressed our deep thanks." Also during the first assault on Tenochtitlan, he says "We marched along with our arms in our hands, for we were never parted from them by night or day, and we were almost collapsing under the weight of our armour and the drenching rain." During the second siege of Tenochtitlan, Cortes proclaimed rules of conduct for the soldiers that included: "..that all soldiers should wear very good armour, well quilted, and a gorget, headpiece, leggings and shield… and …that no soldier, horseman, crossbowmen, and musketeer should sleep except in complete armour and with his sandals on his feet, except in case of severe wounds or sickness."

During a prior expedition to the Central American coast where they had landed upon the Island of Cozumel, Diaz wrote "for although they continued to shoot at us we were all wearing padded cotton armour."

In preparing for the expedition to Tenochtitlan, "as there was much cotton in the country around Havana, we made ourselves well padded armour." and also "some of them sold their farms to buy horses and arms, and others … to make quilted armour."

Also "Cortes then gave orders to all his soldiers to furbish up their arms, and to the blacksmiths in town to make helmets…" prior to embarking on the Conquest.

The Florentine Codex gives several descriptions of the Spanish.

When reporting back to Monteczuma on the first meeting with the Spanish, his emissaries (who were ocelotl warriors) reported: "All iron was their war array. In iron they clothed themselves. With iron they covered their heads. Iron were their swords. Iron were their crossbows. Iron were their shields. Iron were their lances." Clearly this couldn't apply to all the Spanish, but it does give a good impression of what the more prominent Spanish would have been attired in, as the Aztecs would not have focused on the rank and file.

Discussing the Spanish fight with the Cholulans, they were described as "their iron lances, their halberds seemed to glisten, and their iron swords were wavy (like a water course.) Their cuirasses, their helmets seemed to resound. And some came all in iron; they came all turned into iron; they came gleaming."

The great parade of the Spanish on their first entry into Tenochtitlan was well described in the Florentine Codex, giving some useful clues to the Spanish appearance.

"Then came following [the standard bearer] the bearers of iron swords. Their iron swords each went flashing. They each bore on their shoulders … their shields – wooden shields, leather shields.

There came as the second group … horses which each came carrying a soldier each with his cotton cuirass, his leather shield, his iron lance, and his iron sword… each horse had bells…

The third group was of those with the iron crossbows… Their cotton armour went reaching to their knees; it was very thick, firmly sewed, extremely dense, thick and close woven. And their heads were covered in the same way with cotton armour. And from the top of each of their heads precious feathers arose; each one went dividing, outspread."

When the Spanish fled during the Night of Sorrow, those bodies who remained in the canals were looted "… were taken there as if merited the iron helmets, the iron corselets, the chain mail corselets, the leather shields, the iron shields, the wooden shields."

Cavalry
Bernal Diaz mentions that the cavalry were ever ready for action, even while asleep, the horses were kept bridled and saddled. They appear to be armoured, for he says "or tell how they wounded our horses, which were useless to us. For though they charged the enemy bands, they received so many arrows, darts, and stones that, well armoured though they were, they could not break the enemies ranks." though this could be referring only to the riders rather than the horses. Images from the various codexes only ever show unarmoured horses, though representations of the riders vary from unarmoured to full plate mail with enclosed helms.

Cavalry operated in small groups of three to five, charging into the enemy then retreating to repeat the process. Essentially they were breaking the enemy's formations and causing fear.

Early in the campaign at Tabasco, Diaz describes the horses as having "little bells attached to [their] breastplates," a theme repeated by the Aztecs own description already mentioned.

When the Spanish marched into Tenochtitlan, the Aztecs described the cavalry as "there came as the second group, as the second file, horses which came each carrying a soldier with his cotton cuirass, his leather shield, his iron lance, and his iron sword, each hanging at the horse's neck. Each horse had bells…" A third group of cavalry in the parade was described as being exactly the same as this group. The first group of cavalry were described as the vanguard and behaved as though searching throughout the assembled throng. One might think they were likewise light cavalry.

As can be seen from the images from the Lienzo de Tlaxcala and the Florentine Codex, representations of the cavalry were not consistent. They show either completely unarmoured riders, or riders in full plate armour. Except for the saddle, the horses are shown completely unarmoured.

The Florentine Codex shows images of cavalry operating with arquebus and crossbow, as well as the usual lance used in an over arm fashion.

Artillery
The artillery initially consisted of 10 brass guns and 4 falconets. Known gunners Mezsa, Arbenga and Juan Catalan tested them out at Cozumel as the expedition started. This complement was placed under the command of Francisco de Orozco, who had experience from wars in Italy. The brass guns are described by the Aztecs as they entered Tenochtitlan "Some [native bearers] dragged the great lombard guns which went resting on wooden wheels. They came continually singing as they made them move."

The artillery is illustrated in the Florentine Codex book 12 and the Lienzo de Tlaxcala. Images mostly show a long barreled gun on a 2 wheel gun carriage. However, the Florentine shows a long thin barrel mounted on a 4 wheel carriage when Cortes marches back into Tenochtitlan prior to the La Noche Triste. This could be one of the Falconets.

All the original artillery were lost during La Noche Triste, the Aztecs throwing them into canals or the lake after the Spaniards had gone.

During the subsequent return of the Spaniards, the artillery was used to break down blocking walls in some towns. "And when they prepared each of the guns, thereupon they shot at the wall. And then the wall broke to pieces; it broke through at the back. And the second time the shot fell, the wall then went to the ground."

During the start of the siege of Tenochtitlan, one cannon was lost at the round stone of sacrifice in the temple complex when the Spaniards were forced to retreat. The Aztecs rolled it into a canal. One might assume therefore that the barrel was readily detachable from the main carriage to be positioned so, or it was one of the falconets which would be far more maneuverable.

7.4.5 Mobile Towers
During the first siege of Tenochtitlan, the Spanish build four mobile wooden towers, capable of holding 25 men each with loopholes and apertures to be manned by crossbows and musketeers. They used them for one sally out to one of the temples, and by the time they reached it the towers were destroyed.

7.4.6 Ships
During the final siege of Tenochtitlan Cortes had 13 'launches' or sloops or brigantines built to command the lakes surrounding the city. They were of varying but similar size, and probably only single masted. Twelve crossbowmen and musketeers manned them, with 12 rowers and a captain for a crew of 25, and carried falconets and boat guns (I take to be swivel guns). With a good breeze behind them, the Spanish used them to over run the Aztec canoes and throw their warriors into the lake. The Aztecs countered this by starting to plant spiked logs in the lake for the ships to run aground on. This for a time frightened the Spanish enough that they curtailed their sailing on the lake until they realised that with some speed up they could effectively knock the logs out of the way, and so they returned to the offensive.

These boats were used to tie down the flanks of the Spanish as they advanced along the causeways. They were also used at night to intercept the Aztec canoes that were bringing supplies into the city. The Aztecs countered this by trying to lure them into a trap, and then the Spanish set a counter trap after that which so worried the Aztecs that they no longer tried to trap the ships. After an initial assault on an island, Cortes split the fleet up, retiring one ship from duty as he had little enough men to man it and it was the lightest craft.

Banners
Cortes had two special banners made for his expedition. His standard bearer was Antonio de Villaroel.

They were described as being "worked in gold with the royal arms and a cross on each side and a legend that read ‘Brothers and comrades, let us follow the sign of the Holy Cross in true faith, for under this sign we shall conquer.'" Later on Diaz mentions a slightly different scenario "He had his standard and the royal pennant setup before his quarters…"

It is described in rousing terms by the Aztecs "By himself came … marching alone one who bore the standard upon his shoulders. He came continually shaking it; he went making it circle; he went tossing it from side to side. It came continually stiffening in the breeze; it came rising like a warrior."

Reference Florentine Codex illustrations of banner bearer always on horse.

The Spanish had trumpeters and drummers as musicians. "The standard led them. They came blowing trumpets; they came beating drums." The large cotton banner went leading them. They were in no way excited, they were not troubled. They went beating the drums and blowing trumpets and wooden flutes."

War Dogs
"And their dogs were very large. They had ears folded over; great dragging jowls. They had fiery eyes – blazing eyes; they had yellow eyes – fiery yellow eyes. They had thin flanks – flanks with ribs showing. They had gaunt stomachs. They were tall. They were nervous; they went about panting, with tongues hanging. They were spotted like ocelots; they were varicoloured."
"Like wise their dogs: their dogs came ahead. They came sniffing at things. Each one came panting; each one came continually panting."

While on the move, the war dogs were stationed at the front along with the light cavalry. "And their dogs came leading, they came preceding them. They kept coming at their head."

Quebecnordiques29 Jul 2005 6:09 a.m. PST

Excellent work Chronofus….well done. Ii I was as hard-working as you are I would add a few more details…

Whatever you do…do NOT buy Osprey's "Conquistador" in their warrior series….awful stuff!

Griefbringer29 Jul 2005 7:32 a.m. PST

I found the Conquistador book in the Foundry Men-at-arms series (number 101?) decent reading when I borrowed it from a library. Unfortunately it is split between actual conquistadors, Mayas, Incas and Aztecs, meaning in practice that there is only a little material on each one of them.

However, the metric/imperial measurement conversions in that book are totally out of whack, and I have no idea which one of them is supposed to be the correct one.

Griefbringer

Quebecnordiques30 Jul 2005 5:28 p.m. PST

Hey Condottiere….thanks for your support.. here's my synopsis…

A very disappointing book from a very talented historian. Pohl's work in previous Osprey titles on Aztec warfare was knowledgeable and together with excellent artwork by McBride and Hook made the titles a very good introduction to Aztec military culture. "The Conquistador" book however, gives the impression of having been written quickly and without too much attention to detail, which explains the abundance of errors, and from a historian's viewpoint,lack of objectiveness in the description of European total warfare in the New World. The repeated reference to "Swiss Landsknechts" is as unforgivable as seeing "British Fallschirmjägers" in a WWII book. Osprey books' strength usually lie in the original artwork from the talented illustrators and here the book again shows weaknesses. In my opinion, at least three of the eight plates are wasted in scenes not relative to the book's title which is unfortunate.
The "Warrior" series was in my opinion the best series of the Osprey publishing company, but the narrative style in the latest books published has switched from historical narration to a characterised third-person account which has lowered, in my opinion, the level of quality the series had.

Sorry - only verified members can post on the forums.