"What battles in the AWI influenced the French to intervene?" Topic

I'm a lone holdout in believing that the Americans could have won without the French by doing a Ho Chi Minh, and just outlasting the British until they left. I admit it's more pride than reason behind that belief.

But anyway.

It's apparent that the French were spoiling for a fight after the Seven Years War. There is some evidence that they were encouraging American unrest, not that the Yanks needed it. And any French intervention was definitely "the enemy of my enemy".
But the French were not stupid. There's no point in getting involved unless you see a chance of winning, or at least giving the British a bloody nose.

I think there were 4 battles and or campaigns that influenced French willingness to get involved.

1. Bunker Hill. Hmmmm. Those Yankees look like they're serious.
2. Trenton Princeton campaign. They're beaten! Yet they don't act as if they are.
3. Saratoga. A whole British army forced to surrender?
4. Germantown. Their capital is captured, and yet they fight on?

The surrender at Saratoga and Germantown occurred within a week of each other. It's not far fetched to assume that news arrived simultaneously. Lots of room for mischief here.

I'll not get into French half hearted attempts to regain Canada, nor how they tried to limit American victory after the war and during the negotiations.

Saratoga, but that's because it's what I've always been told, but this is probably related to living in close proximity to Saratoga, NY.

Trenton/Princeton Battles – The Americans instead of folding after New York, actually counter attacks in New Jersey.

Saratoga – An entire British Army is forced to surrender.

I'll have to back up a bit and go with Plains of Abraham….

It's hard to top bagging Burgoyne's big battalions, so Saratoga it is.

Not to take credit away from the rebels, but Louis was probably also gauging Spain. I know of no evidence of negotiations between Louis and Carlos (or their minions) about timing Spanish entry in the war, but Spain helped supply the revolution starting in 1776, and had a whole pile of axes to grind with Great Britain, so it might be significant that France declared war after the Spanish-Portuguese War of 1776-77 was concluded as a clear Spanish gain. The Franco-Spanish alliance certainly looked powerful, and scared the bejeezus out of the British government.

- Ix

I doubt that the rebellion could ever have been entirely defeated by the British even if France Spain (and even Mysore) had not been on the scene. But it might not have ended the same way, with some states staying with the british, a partial independence etc. Who knows…

I do think it was Saratoga which finally tipped the balance as far as an actual declaration was concerned in the case of the French; but French and Spanish involvement goes back far beyond that, and probably armed conflict between the powers was inevitable at some point…

Saratoga was key. Yes, GW showed he could keep taking on the Redcoats, but he was soundly thrashed at both Brandywine and Germantown. But Saratoga? A British army was stopped, forced to surrender.

That was significant.

Saratoga was THE battle that convinced the French to support the colonists.

Well, if it weren't for French and Spanish support, Americans would be speaking English today.

I agree that America did not have to win the war, they just did not have to loose it. In 1776 the British threw everything they had at us. It was the biggest over seas deployment of troops and ships they had ever done. But there was very little left after that to send.

The French were just waiting to have a go against the ancient enemy. I remember Tony Tommel when he was historian at Saratoga showing me documentation that a French ship unloaded enough muskets to equipped the New Englanders Continental line for that year. And was just one ship! They were just waiting their opportunity.

Trenton/Princeton showed them that the American cause was not dead and would continue. Germantown that Evan after a defeat at Brandywine and losing Philadelphia the American army could still but back. And Saratoga was an British army to into the bag. Yes,time to send troop.

Definitely Saratoga. To a much lesser extent Germantown, The French did note resilience in Washington after loosing Brandywine.