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"1948 Germans" Topic


14 Posts

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762 hits since 30 Oct 2018
©1994-2019 Bill Armintrout
Comments or corrections?

robert piepenbrink Supporting Member of TMP30 Oct 2018 10:24 a.m. PST

Throwing out an idea for early "Cold War Gone Hot" speculation. There is a trail of evidence that prior to the raising of the Bundeswehr, the western powers facilitated the "veteran's associations" of about a dozen WWII German divisions, thinking they might be the necessary cadres if they had to raise a German army rapidly. This seems almost too good a notion NOT to use in an early (pre 1952) CWGH game, but how would you make them different from the Americans who would presumably be providing the equipment?

I'm thinking maybe US equipment in old Wehrmacht cammo? Maybe late WWII German organization? Has anyone done this? Does anyone have any ideas?

Vigilant30 Oct 2018 10:51 a.m. PST

I suspect that the only difference would be a West German flag on the shoulder. I doubt that they would be manufacturing uniforms based on US versions, more likely they would just get the same stuff. You could possibly give them US Marine cammo uniforms, or German WW2 helmets which would be easy to manufacture.

79thPA Supporting Member of TMP30 Oct 2018 11:21 a.m. PST

I guess you can do whatever you want, but I don't think they would be in German uniforms. The whole point of the new Bundeswehr uniform was to keep the German troops from looking like the Wehrmacht. Maybe US uniforms in Bundeswehr gray.

Garand30 Oct 2018 12:02 p.m. PST

ISTR very early Bundeswehr were wearing WWII German helmets, but very quickly transition to US M1 style helmets because they looked too "Nazi." So maybe Post-war US uniforms with WWII German helmets? Possibly other items of kit, like breadbags & MG42s as well.

Damon.

Kropotkin303 Supporting Member of TMP30 Oct 2018 2:29 p.m. PST

Colin Gee's Red Gambit series of books poses just such a situation. As he is a wargamer he has put up a lot of hybrid vehicles for a rejuvinated German force here.

link

picture

Legion 430 Oct 2018 3:14 p.m. PST

That is a neat hybrid !


Check out GHQ's Wehrmacht '47 line might give you some ideas … link

Thresher01 Supporting Member of TMP30 Oct 2018 5:37 p.m. PST

In the 1950s and early 1960s, some German troops were wearing WWII camo'd quarter shelters, and gray uniforms (probably WWII surplus I suspect too).

They're seen carrying WWII German, and/or American weaponry, and German WWII helmets (later switched to the US M1 helmet).

As mentioned above, they switched to US Gear, excepting for the M1 helmets and US-style uniforms, so they didn't look too Nazi-like.

Lion in the Stars30 Oct 2018 6:13 p.m. PST

If you kicked off the fighting in 1948 or so, I'd expect however much WW2 surplus as their uniforms and equipment, without even a weapons change.

After all, the US didn't introduce the M14 (and therefor the 7.62mm NATO cartridge) until 1959.

Virginia Tory31 Oct 2018 9:40 a.m. PST

Tough to imagine. There wasn't much of a USAREUR in Germany in 1948.

Thresher01 Supporting Member of TMP31 Oct 2018 10:02 a.m. PST

Yep, and a lot of US troops still had the M1 rifles into the early-mid 1960s.

Nope, the war was over, so we almost unilaterally disarmed.

Far worse is the ratio of Soviet troops divisions still standing after WWII, while NATO was a joke through most of the 1950s.

Things really only started improving in the 1960s, but even then the force ratios in Europe relative to the Soviets were atrocious. Hence the need for jeep-mounted pocket nukes, nuclear artillery shells, etc., etc., to stem the red tide of the communist hordes.

Martin Rapier01 Nov 2018 12:02 a.m. PST

The early Bundeswehr wore WW2 pattern splinter smocks, ankle boots, peaked caps…

Martin Rapier01 Nov 2018 1:49 a.m. PST

Check out his Pathe film from 1955, they are basically wearing WW2 M44 uniforms.

YouTube link

they've got K98s, MG42s and Stahlelms.

The first modern rifle they were issued were licence built FALs, the G1.

79thPA Supporting Member of TMP01 Nov 2018 7:57 p.m. PST

Excellent. Thanks for that.

Martin Rapier02 Nov 2018 1:43 a.m. PST

Tbh I was surprised how "German" they looked. I think the Stahlhelms got dumped pretty quickly Irl, although their pals in the National Volksgrenadier Armee stuck with their M44 Stahlhelms until the end of the Cold War.

So 1948 looks eminently doable with WW2 Germans. I think the French were still building Panthers then as well…

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