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"Skirmish Level Modern Gaming" Topic

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Whitestreak07 Oct 2018 11:36 a.m. PST

I thought I'd ask here as folks have been very helpful in pointing me to good information.

I'm looking for a set of rules for modern gaming where the scale is 1 to 1. I'm hoping to find special operations style action that could be set anywhere in the world.

Scale doesn't matter at this point, as I'm exploring the options available.

Thanks for any help!

BorisTheSpider07 Oct 2018 11:40 a.m. PST

Black ops?

Lascaris07 Oct 2018 12:23 p.m. PST

We use Force on Force for modern gaming. I enjoy it a lot. You can check out a video from Little Wars TV on YouTube that has a review of the rules and an AAR of their club playing a game.

McWong7307 Oct 2018 12:41 p.m. PST

Force on Force/Ambush Alley.

mjkerner07 Oct 2018 12:46 p.m. PST

I'd add Skirmish Sangin and Spectre Operations to the above.

Personal logo Dentatus Sponsoring Member of TMP Fezian07 Oct 2018 1:09 p.m. PST

How complex/detailed a game are you looking for? What level of engagement? Squads? Platoons? Combined Arms Operations?
You want vehicles? Jeeps/Technicals? IFVs? Tanks? Chopper/Drone rules?

pzivh43 Supporting Member of TMP07 Oct 2018 1:29 p.m. PST

I like Force on Force a lot. I just wrote an article on why on my blog (which is very young, so not much on there yet):


Panzer Mike

Carlo Fantom07 Oct 2018 1:49 p.m. PST


Personal logo Dances with Clydesdales Supporting Member of TMP07 Oct 2018 4:17 p.m. PST

I use Force on Force. I have heard good things about Black Ops, but have not tried them yet. I also haven't tried Skirmish Sangin, but it looks good for very small actions.

Thresher01 Supporting Member of TMP07 Oct 2018 4:39 p.m. PST


Lion in the Stars07 Oct 2018 5:14 p.m. PST

Force on Force is my usual go-to for moderns, though we're getting to the point where Tomorrow's War with InfoGrid-enabled weapons might be more accurate.

But Force on Force is written for fireteams as the basic unit, and player is in charge of up to a platoon.

If you want a smaller game, player in charge of a squad or so, I think Spectre, Black Ops, or Infinity would be better.

EssPee08 Oct 2018 5:07 a.m. PST

I tend to usae fivcore or no end in sight- although I'm just getting to grips with the latter.

Whitestreak08 Oct 2018 6:12 p.m. PST

Thanks for the suggestions. I'll take a look at them in the next week and let y'all know what gets picked.

Whitestreak08 Oct 2018 8:34 p.m. PST

OK, after talking with a friend about Force on Force, he mentioned that the unit lists are scattered about in their expansions.

Is this true? And if so, which one has the most comprehensive listing of US forces, in particular the SEALS and Delta Force?


Uparmored09 Oct 2018 2:23 a.m. PST

The unit lists are pretty simple and straight forward, you could easily make up your own imo. For a start SEALS and Delta would probably roll D10s..

I used Force on Force once years ago and it was fun but I didn't like that each member of a fireteam couldn't act autonomously, which led me on a stupid quest for the "perfect" skirmish rules.

After being through Fubar, Firefight Normandy (adapted to modern) and most recently No End in Sight I now think I would have been better off sticking to Force on Force and playing it with an RPG slant.

There's always one thing that is unclear or that isn't done right with other rule sets. Force on Force has rules for EVERYTHING and does them well. It doesn't get bogged down.

creativeguy09 Oct 2018 7:49 a.m. PST

I own No End In Sight is one I am considering using it when OI get around to that level of combat. I have seen someone use Five Men At Kursk for moderns. My knowledge of other systems drops off rather steeply though.

Lion in the Stars09 Oct 2018 7:37 p.m. PST

OK, after talking with a friend about Force on Force, he mentioned that the unit lists are scattered about in their expansions.

Is this true? And if so, which one has the most comprehensive listing of US forces, in particular the SEALS and Delta Force?

Well, remember that Force on Force covers actions from about 1955 on to today.

So if you want to game Vietnam, there's an expansion for that (and lists for SEALs in there, but they're very different from modern SEALs). There's an expansion for Bush Wars in Africa. There's an expansion for Iraq 2003, there's an expansion for Afghanistan (maybe two). There's an expansion for Blackhawk Down in Somalia.

So, *when* do you want to play?

Whitestreak09 Oct 2018 9:47 p.m. PST

Sorry, I thought I had mentioned the time frame, but after rereading my posts, I see that I didn't. I'm looking for rules that can cover current day – within the past decade and possibly covering a decade in the future.

Also, does anyone know if Spectre Miniatures has a U.S. distributor? I see that Skirmish Sangin is available through On Military Matters

Gaz004515 Oct 2018 8:40 a.m. PST

There are several theatre specific sets that work 'out of area' too…..Cornered Wolf is a good set with scenario generator, force generator with fast and bloody combat. Designed for the Chechen Wars, I have used them for Middle East combat too, Syrian civil war and IDF adventures in the hinterlands…….

huevans01115 Oct 2018 5:10 p.m. PST

Gaz, are there any blogs or AAR's for "Cornered Wolf"?

Lion in the Stars15 Oct 2018 6:30 p.m. PST

I've ordered direct from Spectre, had no problems and got stuff quickly.

Note that they cast to build up stock and don't run another batch of casts until they run completely out, so you may need to make several orders over a couple months to get everything you want.

Gaz004516 Oct 2018 9:38 a.m. PST

Huevans011 there are on the authors FB page. Search 'Cornered Wolf'…..if you are FB inclined of course!

Private Matter16 Oct 2018 4:58 p.m. PST

You can feel comfortable ordering direct from Spectre Miniatures. They have good customer service and prompt shipping.

As for rules: I also recommend Force on Force as a good solid set of rules. It plays well and rewards proper real world tactics and punishes 'reel' world tactics. I pull these rules out when ever I'm gaming with my Marine Corps acquaintances. As for troop lists, I wouldn't get too hung up on that. Real world TO&Es change for each op and each day. I myself like to set up games that are lopsided or reflect troop shortages.

Whitestreak16 Oct 2018 7:54 p.m. PST

I did order the rules from Spectre over the weekend, so I'm looking forward to going through them.

Luckily, this looks like a project for next year, since we're running into the end of the year and all the holidays that entails.

Whitestreak22 Oct 2018 7:22 p.m. PST

Spectre Operation arrived at my door today. I haven't had a chance to do more than glance through it, but it sure is a nice looking book!

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