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"Pak40 tows?" Topic

14 Posts

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905 hits since 6 Oct 2018
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Fred Cartwright06 Oct 2018 3:18 a.m. PST

So I have seen pictures of Pak40's being towed by SdKfz 10, 11 or 251, RSO, Somua MCG and what looks like a Soviet T60 Light tank with turret removed. Anyone got any other suggestions for a tow? Fancy something unusual, so the Somua is top of my list at the moment.

bullant06 Oct 2018 3:49 a.m. PST

How about a Kettenkrad? I don't have any evidence it was ever used for a pak40 but It was used for smaller artillery pieces and towed ME262's later in the war. Obviously, it has limited capability for hauling crew and ammunition as well as the gun but it could work.

deephorse06 Oct 2018 4:48 a.m. PST

Just found a photo of a Renault UE towing one.


How about a Komsomlets or other Soviet artillery tractor?

Talk I've read about a Kettenkrad is that towing a Me 262 around a runway is one thing, cross country with a PaK 40 is something else entirely.

Fred Cartwright06 Oct 2018 5:24 a.m. PST

Interesting about the Renault UE. Did it have the little tracked trailer/limber or just hooked to the back of the UE? Yes have thought about a Kettenkrad, but I have those as tows for other things. Soviet artillery tractor is a possibility. It is for a Normandy force, which is why I thought a French vehicle might be more appropriate, but a number of the Panzer divisions had been recently on the eastern front so a captured Soviet vehicle might work too.
Ah I see you got the link to work, so no trailer. One to think about. Definitely unusual.

Banana Man06 Oct 2018 6:11 a.m. PST

How about the crew itself? Or draft horses?

donlowry06 Oct 2018 9:32 a.m. PST

captured T-26? (with or without turret) GAZ truck or halftrack?

Fred Cartwright06 Oct 2018 9:49 a.m. PST

Good suggestions thanks. Pulled by the crew would require a lot of work to produce suitable figures, probably from plastics. Horse tow again not easy as no German WW2 limbers available. In fact not many limbers available in 28mm for periods after Napoleonics. So would need to be scratch built. T26 crossed my mind, but wondering if any would still be serviceable by 1944. GAZ is a possibility, spares would have been fairly easily obtained even in Western Europe. Other thought I had was a Pz38t Munitionsschlepper pressed into service as an artillery tow. No problem with spares as the various Marders were pretty ubiquitous.

deephorse06 Oct 2018 10:33 a.m. PST

The Kfz 70 could tow a f.k.39(r), which was a 76.2mm field gun, so it could probably tow a PaK 40.

Fred Cartwright06 Oct 2018 11:50 a.m. PST

Looking more closely at the picture of the Renault UE I wonder if it is a Romanian vehicle and gun? On the shield of the Pak40 and also on the back of the UE are what look like the Cross of St Michael. See this link for examples on Romanian tanks.
The insignia has the characteristic v shaped cutout on the arms of the cross, so not a German Balkenkreuz. The Romanians bought UE's from the French so it is a possibility. The crew look to be in German uniforms though.

deephorse06 Oct 2018 2:29 p.m. PST

I'm not convinced. The arms on a St Michael's cross have parallel sides, whereas the cross on the PaK 40 has arms that flare out more like a Maltese Cross. Anyway, isn't the point that the UE could pull a PaK 40 thereby adding diversity to your unit?

Fred Cartwright07 Oct 2018 4:10 a.m. PST

I'm not convinced. The arms on a St Michael's cross have parallel sides, whereas the cross on the PaK 40 has arms that flare out more like a Maltese Cross.

Don't think it is a Maltese Cross. The ones I have seen with the V shaped cutout on the end have very sharply pointed arms on the cross, down to a point at the centre. It is odd all round. German guns normally have no markings at all and it is not a divisional sign I recognise.

Anyway, isn't the point that the UE could pull a PaK 40 thereby adding diversity to your unit?

Quite so. It just puzzled me that is all. Something I have not seen in a picture before.

kevanG08 Oct 2018 5:17 a.m. PST


This looks like it could be croatian to me.

deephorse08 Oct 2018 7:26 a.m. PST

Nope. The indented ends are similar but the rest isn't.

Marc33594 Supporting Member of TMP08 Oct 2018 11:03 a.m. PST

This one is quite the puzzle!

Not Croatian, they didnt have the PaK 40. And on vehicles more likely the checkerboard marking.

Given the Romanians produced the Renault UE under license as the Malaxa UE, and given they did use it as a tow for the Pak 40 I would go with Romanian. I chalk it up to a stylized Cross of Michael. However the Germans in the picture are a problem. I am wondering if this isnt a case of the Germans "appropriating" Romanian equipment, perhaps after the Romanians switched sides? Certainly the Germans did that with some Italian equipment.

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