"Spray primers/paints rated by my experiences" Topic

Having spent the past two years doing fairly extensive undercoating of plastic, resin, and metal minis/buildings/terrain and using a wide variety of spray products, here's my list from top to bottom as to how they rate based on my experiences with them. Hopefully new modelers as well as experienced modelers will benefit from this. Or at least save some of the trial and error guesswork.

1. Games Workshop spray paints: Yep, by far the best I've used. In all categories. Longevity in the can, ease of spray, smoothness of finish, coverage, and effectiveness in varying outdoor conditions.

I had chaos black that was still new in the can but the can itself was six years old. It provided a flawless finish on plastics and I'm still using that can. I even used the chaos black outside in mid-summer on a fairly high humidity day and it had no effect on the finish whatsoever. More recently I branched out into Deathguard Green and Macragge Blue. Again, silky smooth delivery and finish with both colors. Amazing coverage.

I've even experimented and deliberately tried to use GW sprays in conditions where it might cause a problem and they never fail. Dry, humid, warm, cold. Flawless product right down to the bottom of the can, you can spray just as smoothly with the last bit in the can as you can when you first start the can.

Also by FAR the fastest and smoothest drying spray products of any I've used. The Macragee Blue and Deathguard Green dry to the touch within minutes, as does the Chaos Black.

2. Army Painter color spray primers: Good, durable primer finish generally, but some colors tend to have a grainy finish. The black is excellent. The Greenskin Green and Fur Brown tend to have that grainy finish. But it's not severe and provides an excellent bite for paint to adhere to.

Towards the bottom of the can Army Painter becomes problematic. With a good deal of paint still in the can the spray begins to become erratic.

But overall good acrylic primers that cure to a flat, durable finish.

3. Testors spray paints: Generally good, durable primer finishes on plastics. Some cans tend to give a grainy finish to the model, but not severe. Their standard gray primers is one of their best, it does not have a grainy finish at all, it's silky smooth on par with Games Workshop sprays.

I've tried several shades of Model Master gray colors. The Light Aircraft Gray is a useful color for undercoating. However I find that Testors sprays require a longer curing time than GW and Army Painter. For the first day or so it almost seems like Testors isn't going to fully cure properly. You still get a strong enamel smell even a couple days after spraying and the finish feels sort of something approaching "gummy" or "tacky" but in a very subtle way.

However after a few days of drying it finally goes over to fully dry and cured.

Getting towards the bottom of the can be problematic with some Testors sprays. The spray starts to become erratic and it can affect the finish of the model.

4. Armory black spray primer: This product was a strange one. I used it for a year and a half on many resin buildings as well as GW plastic buildings. It performed flawlessly, giving a smooth, flat, black finish.

However, when I attempted to use the exact same cans on an army of plastic miniatures in pretty darn near ideal conditions outside, it gave the dreaded heavy texture graininess that has to be stripped off.

I have no idea why it would work on perfectly on resin and plastic buildings but not on miniatures made of the same plastic. So I personally reserve Armory spray primer for terrain and buildings only.

5. Rustoleum spray products: Many, many factors to consider when using "non-hobby" sprays. With Rustoleum it was a matter of trial and error and just figuring out what sticks properly and what didn't. And you have to be VERY careful with your choices.

Rather than go into a lengthy rant about all the variations, I'll simply give a list of what I've found DOES work on plastics and metal minis. and what DOESN'T.

The following Rustoleum sprays DO properly adhere to plastic and metal minis:

-Color Master Paint + Primer, Flat Black (Use FLAT only, do NOT use any Color Master Paint + Primers in Satin or Gloss! I attempted to use this in Satin Boot Brown and it would not cure.) The flat black in this range gives a nice, smooth, crisp black finish that leaves even the smallest details perfectly intact. This spray was the closest I found in performance to GW's Chaos Black. A really nice black spray primer.

-American Accents Flat Gray Primer. Gives a nice, cured finish similar to Testors standard gray primer. At first seems like it's going to stay tacky but after a day or so it finally dries and cures. Note!: Make sure you get the primer version of this ONLY, NOT the gray colors of regular spray paint. I would assume the same rule would apply to their white and black spray primers as well.

-American Accents Satin Stone White Paint + Primer. I discovered that with American Accents, ONLY the Paint + Primer combination will adhere to model plastic. Do NOT get the American Accents where it's just the satin paint by itself.

The following Rustoleum products in my experience do NOT adhere properly to plastics:

-Rustoleum Camo Light Tan. Tried this on GW plastic terrain and also GW plastic minis. and it lingered as a gummy, sticky finish. It can be rubbed off with a thumb even after close to a day of drying time. And it stayed gummy and sticky even after a day of drying time. Primers should be dry to the touch fairly quickly and this just wasn't sticking properly. I've seen other modelers report that other colors in this range DO adhere to plastics and that it's only this particular color that is problematic.

I have not tried any of the other Rustoleum Camo's so I can't confirm this or not.

(*I've also seen it fairly widely reported by a good number of modelers that Krylon's camo range of colors works very well as a primer/undercoat for plastic models. I have not tried any of them so I can't confirm this or not.)

-American Accents straight spray paints. I would not recommend any of the straight sprays for model plastic. It seems that this range of sprays is more intended for like lawn furniture plastic or things like plastic car bumpers, etc.

Walmart flat black beats them all. 97 cents per can.

I use Tamiya grey surface primer for plastic and metal. I like the results I get from it. The spray paint I use is Testor Model Master Spray Enamel, military colors range.

ALL "hobby" primer and paints suck.
In my experience fully half of all cans have had issues.
The most obvious is spitting out grainy dust if a can hasn't been used in a few months.
And then there is the ever popular $13 USD can of Russian armor green that simply leaks every time you try to use it.

You would have to hold a gun to my head to get me to use anything with a hobby label.

I'll take Krylon, Rustoleum or Walmart house brands any day.
Walmart, which gives full refunds for defective goods, is a notorious bully to suppliers. You better get it right if you want to sell at Walmart.

When I first started miniatures way back in the 80's I was using a primer from a set of model railroad paints and running it in my airbrush. Then I moved on to spray cans of whatever. At some point I was using Citadel primers and clear coat till I got fed up with the crappy quality of the cans. Went back to using whatever was cheap from Lowes, right now Valspar. Stuff turns out pretty good. Granted I'm not entering competitions, but none the less plain ol primer is fine.

ALL "hobby" primer and paints suck.

Never been my experience. I've had one bad can of GW primer and the local store immediately replaced it. The GW, Testors and Army Painter stuff has been excellent.

I'll take Krylon, Rustoleum or Walmart house brands any day.

Krylon is my primer and sealer of choice now. I had one problem with the small plastic nozzle once. I just swapped the nozzle with another can.

Army painter: Over-priced, Overrated, and Under-performing in my experience.

Krylon the winner on metals and plastices. For resin go to your favorite suto supply store and get a can of primer rated for plastics.

Dave

Another vote for Wal-Mart (although I use Rustoleum Automotive for my metal). I prime in small batches and it can be weeks between priming sessions. Last year I went thru 3-4 cans and each time there was still 1/2 a can of paint when it failed. I just took the half used can back to Wal-Mart for a free replacement.

Walmart or the Lowes/Home Depot "generic" flat black is my primer.

I'm not disputing that there's some excellent non-hobby sprays out there. In my OP I specifically talk about Rustoleum Paint + Primer flat black. That is pretty darn close to GW's Chaos Black in quality of finish.

But I think it's extreme to just say something like "all hobby sprays are trash". Seriously? "Hobby sprays" are produced by the same manufacturing facilities that produce general spray paints for home use!

I don't know where GW's sprays are actually made or what supplier they use. I'm not even saying that GW is doing anything purposely to make their spray paints work really well. Could just be total luck that their supplier/manufacturer makes a good quality spray paint.

But I've seen GW sprays work right in front of me. You can't go wrong with them. Seriously. They just work fabulously well. There was a time when I would have never considered spending $15 USD for a can of spray paint. But when I saw how well they worked and that I could use the colors as actual base coat colors for models that sped up the whole painting process, I changed my mind about them.

Army Painter is somewhere well beneath the bottom of my list. Every time I have attempted to use it, it's been a total disaster. Tossed it all a couple of weeks ago at a county sponsored paint and chemical collection event.

Here's the math to back up my assertion that all hobby spray paints suck.
When I started to get away from brush on primers, I tried Ral Partha, Armoury, Floquil and so on. If the can went more than a month between uses, half of them would spit out grainy flakes, rather than a smooth liquid suspension.
Krylon, Rustoleum or Walmart Flat Black, Flat White or grey never gave me that problem. Never. Versus more than half for "hobby" spray primers.

Against my better judgment, I spent $13 USD on a can of Russian Armor spray paint from ….. Battlefront? Do you want to see the spots on my basement floor where the nozzle leaked from Day 1?
Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice…

I reject the argument that these are made by major manufacturers. Mainly because the lot size is so small. That leads to poor quality control. In addition, the retailer is in no position to bully the supplier.

I never tried Army Painter. At that price I'm highly unlikely to.

I've been using Walmart primer for years and still think its the best deal out there. Sure it may be thinner (beneficial for miniatures?) and a can may not last as long but $0.96 USD is hard to beat. I tend to prime in flat white more often than not. Truth is I've never considered paying $15 USD-$20 for a can of primer when I'm already getting the results I'm satisfied with.

Winston,

Many (many) years ago, my summer job was working in a Levi's plant. A bundle of jeans would come down the line, Levi's tags and buttons would be attached, and a price tag of $22 USD would be clipped on.

Occasionally, a bundle of jeans would come down the line, and tags and buttons labeled "Cadet" would be attached, along with a price tag of $9.50 USD.

Same jeans…different labels. Major manufacturers do indeed do small lots, especially if a plant has excess capacity.

I'm with Winston, I've only ever tried a "Premium" primer once – and it was dreadful. Why pay more (much more) for a product that is worse?

There seems to be a LOT of confusion between base coat and primer. Unless something is marketed as a primer, it almost certainly wont be formulated to stick to its substrate.

There is a very simple test -- if you need to use varnish to prevent paint wear, you aren't using a good primer.

For what its worth, I have found that Wattyl Super-Etch primer is the best primer for metal figures. I believe in the US it is a rustoleum paint.

I agree with Nick. Most of these so called primers will just peel off with light finger nail pressure – they are paint not true primers. That may or may not bother you. It really bothered me.

Even with varnish the entire paint job is only ever as strong as the bond between the raw material and the first coat that goes on it.

Acid etch for me as well when priming metals. Degrease first.

I have had the best overall results with GW paints and Rustoleum primers.

The worst results were with some expensive spray paint from an art supply store. The color was exactly perfect for what I was doing, but the can put out way too much paint at a time, and obscured a lot of detail on the miniatures. (I washed it all off with Simple Green, and tried GW spray paint, and they came out great.)

Not sure the Wal-Mart flat white is still available – few months ago I saw all of the cans in the store I was in in marked clearance.

Last week when I was in there was no flat white on the shelves.

Plenty of gloss white and both gloss and flat black.

Hope it was just a few cans from one lot – really prefer flat.

The WalMart brand is "Tru-Color" and yes, the flat paints are often times sold out.
Which is why I buy a case of 12, when they stock it.

If you want better adhesion from spray paints try this.

Run the can under hot tap water for about a minute, right before spraying your figures.
Metal figures should be heated with a hair dryer right before spraying them. Get them nice and hot and spray from about a foot away. The paint will melt onto the metal and bond.

To the guy that had 4 half filled cans that did not work. Did you turn the can upside down and blow out the excess paint after you finish spraying? If you fail to do that, the paint in the tube will dry and clog the can.

I haven't been able to find the Walmart white or gray primers either.

Also, not sure their black is a primer now, and not just a flat black paint. Will have to double-check that.

When you say 'plastic' do you mean hard or soft (polythene)? If the latter I have only found plasticote to give the base I require and the nozzles clog about halfway through the can – am going back to a brush!

I mean hard styrene plastic, typical model plastic.

I was in Walmart the other day. I could not find the generic white or black primer either. What they had was the generic black and white spray paint, but no actual primer.

Listen, I had no intention for the thread to become a purist vs. non-purist thread.

Some extreme things are being said here which I don't think are helpful.

The idea that there's only very few REAL primers out there and most modelers aren't using real primers is simply ridiculous. I'm not confused about the difference between a "basecoat" and a "primer coat" or "undercoat". A basecoat CAN also function as the primer/under coat. That's exactly what GW's sprays and Army Painter's sprays do. They are formulated to be colored primers AND basecoats. That's the whole point of spraying space marines in Macragge Blue or Orcs in Deathguard Green. You get a solid surface to paint on but you also get the base color of the model without having to waste so much time with slopping by hand a model with a brushed on basecoat.

Army Painter's and GW's sprays are formulated to be colored PRIMERS. So you can baseocat an entire army in the most common color and then paint the other details by hand.

Timmouk, I'm sorry but you're claiming things that are simply not true.

Look, you gave great advice about metal minis. and I followed it because there was an actual need for self-etching primer to ensure proper adhesion of paint to a metal surface. I found that pre-washing metal minis. and using an actual metal primer does actually improve adhesion. Using ordinary spray paints on metal minis. I found is not sufficient for metal a lot of the time.

But for plastics it's a whole different creature. You made the claim that with all hobby primers you can scratch off the primer with a gentle thumbnail scratch. This is patently false. I tried to scratch off GW's Chaos Black, as well as Army Painter's black primer. And I scratched as hard as I physically could without risking breaking the model. It wasn't a gentle scratch.

The undercoat didn't BUDGE. It wasn't affected in the least whatsoever. Yes, there was some transparent movement marks on top of the black surface where the thumbnail kind of scuffed the surface on top of it. But the primer DID NOT COME OFF.

The Macragge Blue was even tougher. I scratched it hard, and the blue did not budge. Same result with Army Painter's green primer. Did not budge. That being said, there is NO primer that can 100% resist coming off. If you keep scratching any primed model and do it hard enough, ANY primer or basecoat WILL come off, I don't care what it is. Primers are meant to help with adhesion of paint, not resist a nuclear blast.

So you're saying that none of those products actually work as a primer and aren't real primers??? Then exactly what are they??? They sure seem to function as primers to me!

You also claimed that the only reason you would need to use a varnish on a model is if you don't prime a model properly. Huh? So varnishing models is an unnesessary thing that's only needed because of inferior priming? Seriously?

That's ridiculous! I can tell you first hand that using GW spray as a base coat and then varnishing over it creates a seriously tough, chip and scuff resistant model. I've handled those models moving them around and taking them in and out of carrying cases. I've handled them in games. I've even dropped a couple of them onto hard wooden floors. The paint jobs did not budge!

I'm trying to figure out exactly what you expect a "real" primer to do? What's the proof that it's a real primer if what I described above doesn't qualify?

The fact is, if a modeler reports that they use the cheapest possible 99 cent Walmart spray and it works as a primer, why dispute that? Generic stuff often contains the exact same ingredients as more expensive primers. By the same token, many spray paints that adhere to plastic give a much better surface to paint over than if you just painted on bare plastic.

Any spray technically is going to give a better surface to paint on vs. bare plastic.

If what you were saying were true then when I dropped a space marine the paint should chip or scuff right down to the bare plastic right? As in, if that Macragge Blue was such a poor undercoat then wouldn't it chip off the model right along with the paint on top of it? All the layers would come off together if the spray coat wasn't properly adhered.

But that doesn't happen. It doesn't happen because GW sprays work as primers. If anything, a serious impact, scuff or drop of a model might cause the paint to get scraped off down to the spray coat, but that wouldn't happen because the paint is so tightly bonded to the spray coat underneath.

Look, I've appreciated your advice and input with regards to doing good priming. But in this regard I think you're going way over the top by saying that no hobby sprays work as actual primers. Of course they do. And some non-hobby sprays work as primers. And in some cases even really cheap sprays can work as primers depending on the brand.

I just want a balanced discussion about this. I don't want modelers scared away from using certain products because of all-or-nothing statements.

Salutations!

Just primed about 350 figures, last week, with Rust-Oleum 'Clean Metal Primer', 'gray primer 7582' (almost white). Very satisfied with the results. Will get more when this can runs out.

I've found Army Painter Leather Brown plus a wash of brown Strong Tone useful in quick wood jobs.

@JAFD26,

I've heard a lot of good things about Rustoleum's clean metal primer. It's mentioned quite a bit on modeling forums.

I might give it a try now that I have a first-hand account from you about its results!

I've used Krylon for a while now, but like Army Painter for colored speed painting.

Their green and flesh colors allowed me to do a pair of Martian Empires armies in 18mm in record time.

Have had 2 dud cans of Rustoleum primer from Home Depot in a row. Their quality control isn't THAT great.

Funny timing…

I just grabbed my can of Army Painter Desert Yellow Spray Primer. Half full; not old at all. No spray; just a stream. I cleaned the nozzle. Some spray but still mostly a stream. I switched nozzles with one I knew worked fine. Still a stream.

I have never encountered this, but the can's a bust.

I looked a the Rustoleum etching metal primer in Lowe's today it appears to be a shade of green/grey. How does this work for a base color? I've not seen one that says "clean metal primer"

The last thing I'll say about the topic is, look up a guy on Flickr named "Jay Adan". He is a prolific, professional commission painter who has painted every conceivable type of miniature. He paints plastics and uses NO primer whatsoever. Granted he does a lot of commission stuff for display and not actual wargaming.

But in his experience he says that acrylic paint on bare model plastic with a several coats of varnish works perfectly well. He even says you can reasonably handle plastic miniatures painted that way, even if used in wargames. He says one big culprit for paint coming off a miniature is handling with greasy fingers.

So it's one example of where a professional painter uses no primer. And his clients haven't had to return miniatures because of paint issues.

All a matter of perspective.

Salutatiens, Fusilier Dan,

The UPC code on the can I used sez '7780830 Clean Metal Primer / 20066 77808'.

Maybe check at the store's service desk or the Loew's website?

I know I got the can at either Loew's or Home Despot – big help, eh?

Bumping an older thread but I've fallen into the habit of using 3 primers.

1. Walmart 97 cent cans. Resin and plastic. Adheres just fine, cheap, plentiful, and has never let me down. Those materials seem to hold it well.
2. Duplicolor Sandable Primer. Found at Pep Boys. Tried it after it was recommended on many threads. I use it on metal since I have found in my experience Walmart's black primer rubs off of metal a bit too easily. Goes on very thin which is a huge plus.
3. Air Brush priming with Vallejo primers. For models where I want to delicately control application, or when I need to prime when weather is miserable. I use this method with all Reaper bones soft plastic models as I've found the material doesn't like most aerosol primers and stays tacky. Air brush priming doesn't have that issue.

I don't have anything against high end hobby primers, I just can't see myself spending $18 USD a can for GW's black primer.

I used to use Humbrol 33 Matt Black thinned and brushed on or a rattle can but have now switched to Rustoleum Tremclad Anti Rust primer as it has lees of an odour plus it goes on really thinly.
Turn the can upside down and leave for a week to allow the pigment to settle on the lid. Turn the can correct side up, open lid and scop out some of the pigment. Thin with commercial thinners and brush on.
Even with spray cans the primer can rub off on certain points due to handling but this one does not, even scratching the surface with my nail does not remove it.
And it is cost effective compared with Humbrol.

Cheap generic spraypaint (WalMart, Home Depot, whomever) in black, white, grey, brown, red, and green depending on what goes over it.

Krylon H20, obviously, for foam, since it lacks the acetone that dissolves foam.

I also use Krylon when there are more than two different materials in the model. Krylon gives a very consistent painting surface when there are multiple materials involved. I'd probably use Krylon for a big half-and-half two material model.

So it's one example of where a professional painter uses no primer.

Interesting. I want to know how representative that is of professional painters. I just looked at some Jen Haley videos on Youtube. She seems to use a light grey primer for all her figures. Looks similar to the primer I use for my figures. (And that, unfortunately, is where the similarities end).