Help support TMP


"Battle of Bosworth" Topic


6 Posts

All members in good standing are free to post here. Opinions expressed here are solely those of the posters, and have not been cleared with nor are they endorsed by The Miniatures Page.

For more information, see the TMP FAQ.


Back to the Renaissance Discussion Message Board



542 hits since 10 Sep 2018
©1994-2018 Bill Armintrout
Comments or corrections?

davejl11 Sep 2018 12:02 p.m. PST

I'm building up my armies for this battle.
I'm doing William Stanley's forces and wondered if anyone could help with my question.
Would all the troops under his command have his livery (red coats), or would there be other lords with him wearing a different livery? If other lords were with him, does anyone know who they might have been?

I'm painting 3 units of bills and archers. One I've done in the Stanley red, but need to know if the other 2 u it's should be the same.

Thanks.

Best Wishes Dave

MajorB11 Sep 2018 1:48 p.m. PST

This is a subject about which we know very little. The chronicles mention the great lords in the battles of the Wars of the Roses but the lesser nobles, those who owed allegiance to one of the great lords largely go unrecorded.

There is also some debate about whether a man would wear the livery of his immediate lord or the livery of a great lord to whom his lord owed service.

In other words, your guess is as good as mine …

To complicate matters even further, some heraldic and livery colours went with the person, some with the family name, and some with the title. so it'd be prefectly possible for one nobleman to have three or four different ones.

davejl11 Sep 2018 9:42 p.m. PST

Thanks very much MajorB. It's a fascinating period, but as this question shows, very frustrating.

Best Wishes Dave

vividchris12 Sep 2018 8:10 a.m. PST

hello
adding to what has been said I can put this on the screen, I did a bit of research into sir Thomas Stanley's muster for a Bosworth project of my own and came up with a few names that might help you get a bit of extra colour on the table
in one chronicle it mentions sir Reginald bray, sir Richard Guildford, sir giles daubeney , sir john cheyne(Y) being the first to respond to lord stanleys call to arms. along with Edward baron stourton, john fortescue, john culpepper
cant quite remember exactly where this info came from some old text on line and or a stanley family chronicle but I wrote the names down lol,
another txt mentioned lord Stanley seconding some of his strongest knights to henry tudor , some of these being sir William Stanley , sir john savage , sir john cheyney( unhorsed /killed by richard111) , Robert turnstall(tunstall?) and sir hugh pershal so these are your likely lord candidates for your other units,as it would seem they were with william possibly maybe??
they might just have been mounted retinues .
I couldn't say as previously mentioned nobodies sure
then theres the finding of liveries and badges of the above if known .if indeed you want to, all in all good fun

these other men at arms / knights I found seemed associated with the stanleys at bosworth,well ive got them on a list,
Edward Woodville,robert Willoughby,william Berkeley,james blount,thomas Arundel,richard edgecombe, Edward poynings so these have possible retinues
I hasten to add this was just me and a computer im no historian

Vigilant12 Sep 2018 10:25 a.m. PST

I'm guessing that unless the principal lord was going to dip into his pocket, any livery worn by the rank and file would be that provided by their own lord. Also livery might just amount to wearing a reasonably consistent colour, not some fancy design. Pretty much do as you want on that basis and challenge anyone to prove you wrong.

davejl13 Sep 2018 11:50 a.m. PST

That's great guys and so helpful. Many thanks for taking the time to reply. Much appreciated.

Best Wishes Dave

Sorry - only verified members can post on the forums.