"Most Popular WWII Scale 15mm or 28mm?" Topic

My 20s are based singly, often using washers of various sizes for bases. (Vehicles are not based, except motorcycles that don't have sidecars.)

If I didn't already have so many 20s and the buildings, etc. to go with them, I'd probably opt for something smaller these day, but larger than 6mm -- say 10/12mm.

20mm all the way for me for years, and (after massive persuasion) recently made the jump to 28s.
I still love my 20mm but honestly, there is no contest…
( a big table helps).

Yep… still not as nice as AB.

But full marks for trying.

That's subjective and debatable. 28mm can look just as good as 20mm if not better, and 20mm is slowly but surely being replaced by a new generation of 15mm and 28mm gamers.

IMHO… 20mm-1/76-1/72 overall by a wide margin.

Quite a few skirmishers liking 28mm and some of those interested in larger formation games perfering 15mm.

There are 1/300 and 10mm but they are a far distant 4th and 5th.

I have played WWII in 1/300, 15mm, 20mm, and 28mm with rules ranging from true skirmish rules (Iron Ivan's Point Blank) to platoon level (Disposable Heroes initially and now Chain of Command) to divisional level, so it is hard to say which is the most popular -- it might depend on what one is playing.

I think all of those scales have some nice figures and vehicles to offer although 20mm (especially the ABs) and 28mm (including the new Empress WWII) are clearly at the top of the heap for me. But since I now play almost exclusively Chain of Command and on 6x4 to 9x5 tables I switched from 28mm to using 20mm which I think just look better in terms of the size of the table. When using 1/48 armor, I found the larger tanks looked monstrously large on the table but had ridiculously short ranges in comparison. When using 1/56 scale, you still have the range issue but the vehicles look too small next to the figures. For example, in the pic of 28mm figures/vehicles, the Artizan (?) US infantry figures look out of scale with the TDs above. By the way, both Piers Brand and 28mm Fanatik have posted some wonderfully painted examples in their respective scales!!

I know this doesn't answer the OP… but I'm not sure there is a one true scale in terms of popularity -- some may play in several scales depending on the rules and their scale.

20mm all the way for me for years, and (after massive persuasion) recently made the jump to 28s.
I still love my 20mm but honestly, there is no contest…

Apart from wondering why anyone would want to increase the footprint of units in a period where ranges are pretty long and there are lots of vehicles around, for me the main factor is that the vast majority of 28mm stuff is just plain ugly. Wierdly proportioned, poor oversized details and weapons that look like they come from WH40K ( and thats not a mere coincidence, Orcs in camo………) with some notable exceptions like the Perrys ( more like subtley up scaled 25mm and I mean that as a compliment) and the recent Empress Miniaturess stuff ( handsome it is) the majority of it looks like its popped off the GW conveyor belt. That look may be ok for Sci-fi/Fantasy but just looks odd for historical stuff to my eyes.
Then again I think that all 28mms look out of proportion on most tables relative to the area and terrain, Ive seen some Napoleonic games that just look very very odd.
Suspect its a lot to do with generations brought up on GW style and the decline of 'simulation' and the rise of 'its just a game'.
Yes Im an old sod…………..lol
And then there is the prices………
And btw I am biased as I make 20mms!
L

I do ww2 in 1/1200, 1/600, 1/300, 6mm, 15mm and I have some 28mm commandoes but don't like them.

I wargame all these scales in loads of periods including 10mm and 12mm and ECW and AWI in 28mm but do not own any 20mm at all.

I consider 20mm to be the one true scale alright…the one to avoid!

I gamed in 20mm for many years, and boy what a frustrating experience it was. Plastic figure sets. What rubbish. Inconsistent sizes, tiny infantry combat group, massive Brit Paras. Weird poses and weapon mixes. Why are half a dozen Brit Paras shooting up into the air? Commandos –
"What weapon have you got soldier?"
"A knife, sir"
"No gun?"
"No sir, just a knife!"
Plastic kits, strange choices. Airfix released the RAF Refuelling Set. Whoopee do! Why not make something useful like an ordinary Bedford QL? Airfix SdKfz 234/4 – how many did they make? 100? And they couldn't even get the mudguards right.
Then along came Matchbox, Fujimi, Hasegawa and ESCI. Matchbox and Fujimi were ok, but ESCI and Hasegawa were 1/72 and my Hasegawa Easy 8 dwarfed my Airfix M4's! What to do? Couldn't replace the whole lot so ended up trying to standardise on all vehicles of the same type in the same scale. It didn't really work, but was better than starting over and it was impossible to get everything you wanted in just one scale anyway.
Metal figures when they came along were mixed. Platoon 20 had a nice range, but limited to late war and very brittle, broke easily. Hinchliffe had typical Peter Gilder gangly arms and were limited to single poses mostly. Raventhorpe were huge.
Then in the early 90's I bumped into Peter PIg at a show. 15mm WW2 what for, I asked? Useful for people who already game in 15mm in other periods he said. True I gamed in 15mm mostly for earlier periods so the advantage of reusing most of the terrain, with the addition of a few WW2 specific items was a big attraction. He had a nice, pretty complete early war range and early war was hard to find in 20mm. I bought some.
For a while I was doing 15mm early war and 20mm late war, but then late war ranges started to come out in 15mm and storing boxes of 20mm including seperate terrain became a pain so I sold the lot. I found 15mm a more forgiving scale. There are minor differences in sculpting style, but once painted and based on the table I can't tell the figures apart without looking closely. Since then the ranges have expanded enormously and I can get anything I want. Even decent 15mm hard plastic figures with usable poses!
20mm has also come along in leaps. Decent metal infantry from SHQ, AB and Adler. Heaps of vehicles from expensive resin and metals to some reasonable plastics. However if I had stayed with 20mm would have ended up replacing everything as the better stuff came along, so switching to 15mm has had no big downside for me. I still have my early war Peter Pig Germans and French. Very nice they are too.
Have noticed when anyone posts pics of 20mm on here it is always AB figures. No one posts pics of the less photogenic figures on the market, with the big heads and outsized weapons.

Strangely, looking at these pictures , the 20 mm of Piers look better proportioned than the chunky 28mm figures. Both scales look great to paint up, the games look more like dioramas than wargames they are so good, if you enjoy painting then this is the way to go as some of these pictures are inspirational. As a wargamer who doesn't paint well I would want to field larger armies so to me 15mm is the probably the best wargaming scale for most periods, however, looking at the ground scale and modern weapon ranges I would seriously consider 10mm and 6mm as you can field bigger Regimental and Divisional sized armies on smaller tables which would include a more varied range of equipment.

Apart from wondering why anyone would want to increase the footprint of units in a period where ranges are pretty long and there are lots of vehicles around,

A good arguement for going to 15mm then! :-)

Strangely, looking at these pictures , the 20 mm of Piers look better proportioned than the chunky 28mm figures.

I think the comparison is between the best proportioned 20mm and the heroic 28mm. If you compared the best proportioned 28mm such as these Perry's.
link
To big headed 20mm figures you would say the opposite.

For me 15mm stuff is neither one thing or the other, miss out on the modelling side of things that you get with 20mm stuff ( and Im much more a modeller than a gamer) and for larger games 6mm stuff gives a more realistic look. Then again I've seen too many FOW car park games and have a rather jaundiced view of 15mm. Got a couple of nice PP units mind you :)Will use em one day.
L

miss out on the modelling side of things that you get with 20mm stuff ( and Im much more a modeller than a gamer)

I don't find 20mm very satisfying from the modelling point of view, but then I started as a military modeller doing 1/35th scale. I don't find you get any extra detail on a 20mm figure than you do on a 15mm. 28mm seems, to me, to be the smallest figures you can get recognisable facial representations as the Perry "Luke warm in Cairo" set demonstrates

and for larger games 6mm stuff gives a more realistic look.

Agreed you get the mass effect with 6mm.

Got a couple of nice PP units mind you :)

Always liked Martin's sculpts. Particularly good on firing poses where the weapon looks "tucked in" and the firer is leaning into the shot. Not like someone has just bent up the arms and stuck a rifle in them. Your 20mm poses are very nice too Leon.

Oh well at least it's nice to know that I'm being replaced by 15mm and 28mm gamers… slowly but surely. Very slowly… people been telling me that for over 20 years. Oh wait… maybe it ain't true?

No one new buying 20mm WWII… well except all those new people buying it. I know a couple…

Sometimes personal perceptions may differ in an audience wider than your own gaming cohort. For instance, in my group of 10, all use 20mm… perhaps I should infer that means no one uses anything buy 20mm? But I know that's not true… I also don't know the entire sales figures globally for any figure size so I can't tell what's 'hot or not' without utilising biased hyperbole.

But if 20mm was waning… why so many releases? Odd… Plus all those new 1/72 kits… someone is sure buying alot to support so many manufacturers…

Quite happy to show stuff other than AB… I use lots, and all nicer than 15mm and 28mm in my view…

But 20mm WWII gamers have always been a silent giant… we just beaver away while the short 15mm and gorilla 28mm fight it out for glory.

I suspect the need to prove 20mm WWII as evil and in decline is out of fear and jealousy… ;)

Quite happy to show stuff other than AB… I use lots, and all nicer than 15mm and 28mm in my view…

Bit selective Piers. No Lancashire Games or Kelly's Heroes? No plastics?

Oh well at least it's nice to know that I'm being replaced by 15mm and 28mm gamers.

That progress Piers! You are like last years smart phone! :-)

This whole is 15mm, 20mm, 28mm stuff is nonsense. All the scales have some great slupts and all have some truly shocking ones. When I gamed 20mm I remember picking up some god awful Romanians shoes rifles where flatter than the Nerthlands

Speaking of someone who has painted all 3 scales my advice is to choose a scale that you enjoying painting. It's the thing you are going to spend most time on and you need motivation to carry on.

I love painting 28mm and get the most enjoyment out of it but they are a pain to store and take up alt of room.

I like the visual appeal of bigger Armies in 15mm and tanks look good in this scale.
There is also an increasing range of kit coming out.

20mm are nice to paint and reminds me of battles on my bedroom floor.

Just remember there is not one
true scale and those who claim otherwise do so in jest or just blinkered.

Paint and collect what you enjoy as it's your time and money at the end of the day. Don't do what I did and water years umming and arring. Just get stuck in 😀

Just to show those still doubting that 28mm can look as good as 20mm here are some pics!

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Until FOW arrived the most popular scale was 20mm. I am old enough to remember when it was the only scale that anyone made. I still do 20mm. There are much more vehicles models you can purchase that are painted and ready to use right out of the box. Most 15mm terrain works with 20mm and all the FOW terrain, buildings etc look great with 20mm figures.

20mm for France 40 (Kelly Heroes and Blitz miniatures, with some Foundry French thrown in the mix for good measure). Platoon sized games.

28mm for Germany 45. Those Empress Volksgrenadiers were too tempting. Intention is skirmish games. 1 figure equals 1 man. Will use Spectre Ops adapted to WWII.

Never tried smaller scales. Tempted by 15mm, though.

I am old enough to remember when it was the only scale that anyone made.

You must be pretty old then as I am sure Denzil Skinner was selling 1/100 tanks in the U.K. and Quality Castings selling 15mm WW2 in the US long before I started gaming, and I can remember the first 5/6mm coming out. Leicester Micromodels in the U.K. and GHQ in the US.

28mm for Germany 45. Those Empress Volksgrenadiers were too tempting.

They are rather nice!

Just started 28mm for BA. Have a load of 15mm for Rapid Fire and Crossfire and 6mm for KISS Rommel. 20mm were dumped early 90s.

I've sold all of my 15mm WW2, and a big chunk of my 28mm, and pretty much exclusively do 20mm now. Between the choice, and quality of model, as well as price, it's hard to go elsewhere.

Really wanted to like 15mm or 20mm but after buying a shed load of the stuff, found out I absolutely hated painting anything that small.

I buy 28mm (or whatever passes for that size), as I always enjoyed painting my fantasy figures in that size, and find I enjoy painting WWII as well.

I use 15,20 and 28mm. There is room for them all and all have their uses. Nothing like sitting on the fence :).I also like 1/35th scale for display models and dioramas .
So for me size doesn't matter its what you do with it that counts.

20mm primarily (wrote a game to support). All scales are hit and miss on quality. In general I've found 20mm quality quite high and this includes modern plastic lines like Caesar, Zebvedi and Italiri. Plastic figures often have much better proportions than metal – if you don't like a certain line of plastics by all means buy another.

20's large enough to have individual figure detail without over sizing weapons and vehicles have a reasonable foot print. Much less expensive than 28mm.

15s important if your committed to FOW (I've got enoght to play) and 28s if your committed to Bolt otherwise I'd go with 20s. The problem is that if you meet up at the club/shop you'll run into FOW or Bolt players. So those scales seem dominant. Trying to give the same opportunity to 20mm players with Combat Command.

As to mounting we put 2 figures on a "small FOW" base. Representing a platoon.

Thomas J. Thomas
Fame & Glory Games

Well, not to be left out …

Just to show those still doubting that 28mm can look as good as 20mm here are some pics!

Nice looking M3s there, Fred! How many companies do you have?

I can hardly think of less than company-sized units. Infantry, tanks, whatever. Unless it's a supporting arm, I want companies. Maybe even battalions.

And when I play, I kinda feel the need for a bit of room to stretch my elbows (and my artillery)…

I like my battles to include maneuver, where maneuver is not so much a question of going around the house on the left or the right, but rather is much more a challenge of concentrating forces in space and time at the critical point of the battle.

And so I game at 6mm.

Although I can be convinced to play at larger scales, from time-to-time.

-Mark
(aka: Mk 1)

Nice JS2's Mark. The M3's aren't mine sadly. I think 6mm stuff looks great. But I disagree with those that say it is cheaper. It may be cheaper on a per tank basis, but you just buy more. Wargaming toys expand to fill the budget available, and then some, at least in my experience. I would not save money buying 6mm that's for sure.
As to posting the pics I just get a bit tired of the 20mm mafia claiming their figures are the only ones that can look good and every other size has grotesque figures.

I think 6mm stuff looks great. But I disagree with those that say it is cheaper. It may be cheaper on a per tank basis, but you just buy more. Wargaming toys expand to fill the budget available, and then some, at least in my experience.

Well, hmmm.

I'm gonna say: No. 6mm IS cheaper.

If I was starting out, I could put a well constructed, well rounded, well supported fighting force on the table for maybe about $75 USD, including the terrain! Not if 100% of my stuff is from the top premium vendor, but even at $75 USD much of my stuff might indeed well be premium stuff.

Let's look at how I started my Romanian force as an example.
1 company of infantry, using two packs of GHQ Romanian infantry and one pack of GHQ Romanian support weapons. Today's price: $36. USD
2 packs of 75mm "soixante quinze" artillery guns, with horse limbers, from Heroics WW1 collection.
Today's price: $9.40 USD
4 47mm AT guns from Heroics' Italian WW2 line.
Today's price: $2.90 USD
6 GAZ trucks from Herioics' Russian WW2 line.
Today's price: $4.35 USD
1 pack of R-2 tanks from GHQ Romanian line.
Today's price: $11.95 USD

My total is less than $65. USD I have a well-balanced combined arms force of 3 platoons of infantry, a support platoon with mortars and MGs, a company HQ, some trucks to haul at least the support weapons around, a battery of AT guns, a battery of artillery (with their own transport), and a platoon of tanks.

And I still have some money left. For $6 USD I can get a game cloth at my local fabric store, and for $2 USD I can buy some pastels. $1 USD each for square and triangular cross-section balsa rods, which with only a half-ounce of creativity can produce 20-30 buildings ranging from hovels to modern suburban homes to grain elevators. With some surplus cardboard from empty boxes in the garage as my elevations, and some grape stems after last week's groceries and lichen from local trees to help build some woods, I'm ready to go!

Oh, I'll need to buy stands for the infantry at least. For $1 USD I can get 100 19mm round metal stands. More than I'll need for my infantry, my support weapons, and my trees!

I defy you to get started, at such a meaningful level, with 15mm, 20mm, 28mm or even 10/12mm.

In fact the starting point is so reasonable I think I'll add to it, to bring it up to a full company of R-2 tanks. And I'll get some heavier French trucks, and some German trucks, and some C-in-C Pak97/38 AT guns, and maybe some GHQ 37mm Bofors AT guns (to give a bit of variety), and some armored cars, and some SM.79jr bombers (Heroics) and maybe some IAR.80 fighters, and some BF-109G fighters, and some HS-129 ground attack planes, and some Pz IVH and StuGs for later war armor.

Then I can do the same with an Italian force. And a French colonial force. Well, only after I have my French continental force. Then I'll need Americans -- both 1942/43 North Africa / Sicily, and 1944/45 ETO. Oh, and while I'm at it I could use a little 1946-53 US Army too, just in case. Never know when we might want to fight a "Patton vs. Zhukov" or Korean War scenario. And then of course I need Russians, and Russians, and Russians, and more Russians.

Well, if I'm going to do Korean War I might as well look at some of the Arab/Israeli wars, which leads me right in to cold-war Europe. Let's get some cold-war USMC as well, and some third world warriors (easy to re-use some of the WW2 or 1967 6 Day War stuff), and then maybe I need to build a French Force Action Rapide to have an alternative for when the jarheads are busy, and really one of these days I will need some Strykers to go with my M1A1s … well no, I need to get some M1A2s to go with Strykers …..

So as I was gonna say: Yes. 6mm is no cheaper. Wargaming toys expand to fill the available budget.

-Mark
(aka: Mk 1)

I don't think any scale is particularly better than another.It all down to taste,the room we have at our disposal,the quality of the models,what your gaming buddies collect.size of units,and I have to say eye sight could be a factor as well.
The rules we choose don't really matter as most are adaptable for differnt scales.
One thing we have all in common though is that we like this hobby and support it.

Personally I prefer 28mm. I find more comfortable and satisfying painting 28mm than any other scale.

I am a 1/144 (12mm for 5' 8" man) gamer. In our club in the moderns its 1/72 (about 24mm for a 5 ft 8" man) plastic so fine for small foot engagements and are not circus freaks. for bigger battles its 1/144. These are ideal becuase I can print my own and sculpt or commission unique specialist vehicles. 1/144 is better for small vehicle, a Wiesel at 6mm is a bit too small for me to be playable.

28mm to me is a modelling scale, I really most of your fun is paionting I can see the point. Me I hate painting and don't care. Who has time to look if you are up to your neck in crocodiles while trying to drain the swamp :-).

20mm for me, I own a huge amount stretching from ww1 to modern from all different manufacturers metal, plastic and resin, just about any vehicle or troop type I could ever want, readily available aircraft, model railway buildings, resin buildings, trees, power poles, and scenery extras.

My Arnhem

Normandy

Cheers
Matt
Mayenne
France

Skirmish gaming is 28mm. Tank vs tank and all unit level gaming tends to be 15.

20mm for me link

Well since I started this I'll weigh in with my 2 cents. First, thanks to all who responded and those yet to respond. Great comments and pics of some really nice collections!

I started with "20mm" in Junior High back in the 60's, a mish mosh of Rocco, Airfix and 1/72 kits using HO scale scenics. Much was out of scale with each other and looked it on the table. Then Micro Armor hit the world. Cheap tanks galore! Trouble was even then when I could see they looked like so many blobs on the table.

Then I got roped into playing FoW when that fad hit. Wider selection than 20mm and I could see them, at least the tanks, better than 6mm. Better selection of scenics than HO. Then along came Bolt Action and the 28mm craze. So I spent my fourth fortune on yet another scale.

And here is where I'm at today. Still can't see 6mm, literally lol. Still have my dusty boxes and boxes and boxes of mis matched 20mm-HO-1/72-Whatever scale with the paint peeling off all the plastic infantry running around too small HO scenics. Trying to squeeze thru Hobbit sized doors and windows lol.

But I prefer my 15mm when I want to have a tank battle or fight in a large town … think of the movie Battle of The Bulge. And I prefer my 28mm for infantry skirmishes in small towns… think of the old TV series Combat, where I can actually see the men and tell what weapon they're carrying! Just my preferences. Cheers!

20mm

20mm has much more selection. You can buy any number of various vehicles, die cast and ready to play. Lots of infantry available. It takes up less room than 28mm and has more detail and variety than 15mm. So much more available in 20mm!

20mm has much more selection. You can buy any number of various vehicles, die cast and ready to play. Lots of infantry available. It takes up less room than 28mm and has more detail and variety than 15mm. So much more available in 20mm!

Much less so than used to be the case and much of the unusual stuff available in 20mm from small volume manufacturers is eye wateringly expensive or is here today gone tomorrow. Both 15 and 28mm have a lot more available and I can't think of anything I want that I can't get in either scale at the moment.

1/72. Tradition, great ranges, manufacturers driving standards up (AB and Leon amongst others). For me, the proportions are closer to true life.