"Anyone prefer Nuts! v1?" Topic

I still pick up the regular updates that Ed does for Nuts! and the changes are interesting, but I always find myself wandering back to the first edition of Nuts! as my go-to version of the game. I am not sure exactly why that is… but I think there are a few things I prefer with v1:

• It's a minor thing, but I liked drawing cards for your character attributes and I liked the attribute bundles like Ex-Con and Scout. Seemed to add a lot of character… plus you could get an ambidextrous soldier that could fire weapons in both hands! Very cool.

• Another minor thing, but the v1 cover is just gorgeous… very much captures the pulp-WW2 vibe of the game. Actually, pretty much all the interior art was dropped after v1 too… not sure why? I really liked the comics and interior art!

• 1e also gave you more weapon stats right out of the gate… things like Small Caliber Pistols and Small Bore ATR being right in the main rulebook helped you create new home-brewed army lists on the fly (like Early War and East Asia conflicts).

• I liked the simplicity of the original damage system, which took into account the Rep of the target as well as the lethality of the weapon.

• I didn't like the "counting successes" dice pool system that increasingly took over core game mechanics (like "in sight" rolls and melee attacks). The original dice passing system that defined Chain Reaction is just much more elegant in my opinion.

• v1 just feels much more like a skirmish game, with each soldier acting independently (although they move and activate in groups, which promotes teamwork). Later editions had you take tests for the entire group (instead of each soldier) which felt like it downplayed the individual aspect of each soldier in reacting to a threat.

• And finally, Nuts! v1 is just a lot handier… the book is almost half the size and it just seems like it is easier to reference on the table (although that might just be because I've logged so many hours with it).

What do you think? Do you still play v1?

I like the earlier versions of 5150, pretty much for the same reasons you do. Player tastes are changing, people want faster and less grit, the new versions are just trying to keep up with that.

I am a hardcore fan of the earlier version of Nuts! and also the earliest ATZ. I've been disappointed by the game development over the last 5-6 years. The system was elegant with pass 0/1/2 dice. Counting successes for multiple dice makes the game feel like a other systems out there. If the system needs to represent a wider range of Reputation levels, 10-sided dice like the first Legends of Araby are a good solution. I'm also not a huge fan of new editions of games every year or two. So yes, I still play the older THW games. I enjoy the material in the newer products, but I generally retrofit it for the older mechanics.

Stryderg, yup forgot about 5150 v1. Feel the same way! I use it for Rogue Trader and it's a blast.

Rodrick, I have the first edition of LoA as well, but haven't broken it out. I was thinking of doing a Legends of the Samurai version in the near future…

"I use it for Rogue Trader and it's a blast." I have a 5-faction ship hanger scenario that I like to run using a lot of old GW figures (pirates, rogue traders, van saar, gorka morka orks, etc). I've also used the reaction system with Mordheim to good effect.

Legends of the samurai sounds great!

Yep, Stryderg has it right. People are changing and want it faster and less gritty. The nice thing is all the scenarios still work with all the rules and there's enough variation in the rules that you can pick the ones you want to play.

FYI –

I'm also not a huge fan of new editions of games every year or two.

Not even close.As for new editions. NUTS was 3 years and that was the earliest. ATZ had been six years since the last version, Star Army 4 years, FNG is 6 years out still, Warrior Heroes 5 years, Legends of Araby 8 years, and so on… THW has been around a long time – since 2002.

Geez Ed, you don't have to remind us how fast time flies by. :) I need to get some more games in.

Stryderg – No fooling. 13 years since ATZ won the Origins Award. Wait until you get to be an old guy like me – 63 – time goes by fast!

It's flying at 57 too Ed……

I like the 'new' way to do In Sight checks. Competitive rolls. But I prefer the older Reaction tables.

Don't know why, just do

I petty much play NUTS 4th ed., The new Shooting table does a pretty good job of reflecting the older "Received Fire" test, but I still like the Impact rating for weapons to determine damage instead of the newer REP roll.

PzGeneral – One way to play the newer NUTS versions or all THW games is to let each figure take the In Sight and Will to Fight Tests individually. It does take some added bookkeeping like the old rules did but the new shooting tables will speed it up.

As for more pages in the newer editions, that's partly due to v1 not having any rules for playing solo and the newer ones do.

It's your game and I recommend tweaking the rules as you like, just let any players know ahead of time.

Thanks for the input.

Me too think older versions are better. First LoA is a jewell, as well as the first Red Sand Blue Sky.
But the best ruleset is of course Fighter Command! ;-P
Ed, the same with you, the older the better, LOL
Javier

Btw, here's a recent game I ran at my local game club that used NUTS 4th and some of the Chocolate & Cigarettes LiteRPG rules. This was a Platoon sized co-op game with x5 US players against German defenders being run by the paper & pencil "AI " system.

Part 1: NUTS! Two Hour D-Day – The Beach
link

Part 2: NUTS! Two Hour D-Day – The Town

link

Hopping on the discussion here. Can one of you remind me how the old impact system worked? Let's say you hit with a big pistol with an impact of 2. I'm remembering you rolled a d6, that on a 1-2 the target was Obviously Dead – but what about the other results? Were they just Duck Back? I lost my old copies and only have the new. Thank you for any help.

Ed, it seems you've dumped so many of your games. Most are with Rebel Minis, sure, but it's rough for those of us who don't like pdfs!

Gone Fishing – If you want printed games just let me know. Mike and I have a deal where I can print them for people if they want then we split the sale..

1 = OD
Impact or less but of a 1 = Out of the fight.
Higher than Impact was knocked down and take a Knocked Down test, which has been folded into the newer shooting damage table.

BTW – Haven't made it public yet, but the THW Vault is open. It has about 30 old books in PDF and print if you really want them. Cheap prices and 2nd Ediotn NUTS is there as well

twohourwargames.com/vault.html

Ed, thanks so much for the rules reminder. And for the news that print editions are still available through you. This is just great to hear!

I played a ton of Nuts. But as with any game you "house rule" a lot. So I kept a document of all my notes, errata, house rules, etc. and called it "Cashews!"

If I play Nuts that is what I play and it is really just version 1 with bits added.

Extra Crispy – I'd eliminate the Received Fire test and allow the figure to return fire if missed. if missed a second time, have it duck back.

Example – A fires at B and misses.
B fires back at A and misses.
A fires back at B and misses – B must Duck Back.

That's what's good about THW, you can play as written or tweak the rules to fit your game.

Achtung Minen
Did a little checking on the page count of v1 versus the newer stuff and found out the big difference.

There were no rules for solo play in v1. Thanks for the post, it motivated me to search and find my copy of v1.