"Combined Battalion Facings" Topic

I am a little confused. Do combined light infantry and grenadier units have different facings because they were combined from more than one regiment?

So, in this case, I paint a full regiment along with the lights and grenadiers, say with yellow facings. I then paint my other regiments. When it comes to game time I take the grenadiers (or lights) from different regiments to form the combined battalion. This means that there will be multiple color facing in the combined unit because they are from different regiments.

Do I have that right?

That's right.

Thanks!

I forgot to add, what color facings would the command stands be? Also, the flags?

No flags or colours. They stayed with the parent regiments. Command was probably exercised by the senior company commander, so facings could be those of any of the contributing regiments.

This is why I recommend that when you paint a Regiment, you also paint the appropriate Grenadiers and Light Infantry companies.
You then have one full battalion and a start on the combined converged Grenadiers and Light Infantry battalions.
And the converged battalions have no flags.

Overall command stand would have battalion CO in a cocked hat.

The main thing here is that there were no Grenadier or Light Infantry REGIMENTS. There were battalions, and there is a crucial difference.
A Regiment had distinct and unique facing colors, and flags.
The Regiment then had its flank companies stripped away. These were then converged into Grenadier or Light Infantry battalions. These converged battalions had no permanent existence, as did theoretically the Regiments.
Consider the flank companies "on loan". They wore their own unique facing colors, but took no flags with them when they went.
Being a temporary formation, which could and did last for months or years, the converged battalions had no need for flags.
At this point, most Regiments did not carry their flags in the field, so the converged battalions hardly had need of them.

If the Captain of the Light Company of the 5th Foot (to use an example), was the senior officer in the battalion, more likely a Major, he would command it, in his own uniform, with Gosling Green facings.
The Captain might even get a temporary promotion to Major, or just command by reason of his seniority.

The commanding colonel and major were not necessarily of one of the regiments, e.g. Lieutenant Colonel William Meadows of the First Gredanier Battalion was from the 55th Regiment of Foot, wearing dark green facings – the only one in the battalion.
The 10 companies of grenadiers with their officers, NCOs and musicians were from the following regiments:
4th, King's Own Royal Regiment of Foot,
5th, Northumberland Regiment of Foot,
10th, North Lincolnshire Regiment of Foot,
17th, Leistershire Regiment of Foot,
22nd, Cheshire Regiment of Foot,
23rd, Royal Welsh Fusiliers,
27th, Enniskillen Regiment of Foot,
35th, Dorsetshire Regiment of Foot,
38th, 1st Staffordshire Regiment of Foot,
40th, 2nd Somersetshire Regiment of Foot.

Generally speaking, the Flank battalions were commanded by Majors, or Lieutenant Colonels. On occasion, as in the case of the 37th LI coy and Col. Abercromby, a company might be transferred to the battalion commanded by an officer from their regiment.

FWIW, during the AWI county titles had not yet been assigned These were introduced in summer of 1783. 'National' titles were, of course, well established.

The 27th 'Inniskillings', as they were known at the time, were the only regular regiment with a 'territorial' title, although in fact named for a town (A number of wartime regiments were raised by citizens' subscription: Liverpool Volunteers, Manchester Volunteers, Edinburgh Volunteers etc, but subsequently disbanded).

Compiled from various sources (information is incomplete):

Light Battalions in 1777; 1st Bn – known to include companies from 4th, 15th, 17th, 23rd, 27th, 33rd & 38rd Regiments. 2nd Bn – known companies from 37th, 40th, 43rd, 45th, 49th, 55th, 57th, 63rd & 71st Regiments.

Grenadier Battalions in 1777 – 1st Bn – 15th, 27th, 33rd, 37th, 40th & 55th (plus others?); 2nd Bn – known to include 44th, 52nd, 63rd & 64th (plus others?).

The 1st Guards Bn had a grenadier company drawn from all three Guards regiments, The 2nd Guards Bn had a light company drawn from all three Guards regiments. I don't know if they were detached to the appropriate grenadier or light battalion.

Also, the 1st Guards Battalion's line companies were drawn from the Grenadier Guards. The line companies for the 2nd Battalion were drawn from both the Coldstream and 3rd Guards.

To avoid any potential confusion: The 1st Guards battalion were drawn from the 1st Foot Guards.

The 1st Foot Guards only became the 1st Grenadier Guards in 1815.

There were no light infantry companies integral to the Foot Guards regiments until 1793.

In America, the ad hoc flank corps of the Guards marched with the Guards brigade.

Until March 1777, there were three Grenadier and three LI battalions:

"Head Quarters New York March 23d 1777…
The 3d Battn of Grenadrs and 3d Battn Lt Infantry,
are to be incorporated into the 1st and 2nd Battns as follows.

15th, 28th, 33d and 37th Companies to the 1st Battn Grenadiers.
46th, 57th and 42nd to the Second Battn Grenadiers.

15th, 28th & 33d Lt Infy Companies to the 1st Battn of Lt Infantry.[4th, 5th, 10th, 17th, 22d, 23d, 27th, 35th, 38th, 42nd]

37th, 46th & 57th Companies to the 2nd Battn of Lt Infantry.[40th, 43d, 44th, 45th, 49th, 52d, 55th, 63d, 64th]"

That became the composition of the Flank Bns in Pennsylvania 1777

No flags. I gave each stand a different facing color. Easy enough to finding a list of the various colors. This is not rocket science.

Don't worry about the command stand just give them a color or have give each figure a different color. Your musicians still needs to be reverse colors. Might consider not having any musicians. Its the AWI. You have options.

Presumably the wearing of reverse colours by musicians would depend on whether the battalion in question is wearing regulation coats or short jackets as depicted by della Gatta at Germantown. There, FWIW, the 2nd LI trumpeter- regiment undetermined- wears a red short jacket with faced cuffs, seemingly either buff or yellow.

My $.02 USD cents,

I would once again recommend buying the two volume set of books by the late Greg Novak.
In one of the volumes he discusses the various detached companies which made up Howe's Grenadier Battalions in 1776-77 and more. It is a great info source if you wish to make up historical brigades, independent light and grenadier battalions and much, much more.
I believe that Old Glory carries them---at least that is were I bought mine about twenty years ago!

Tom Semian
Warren, PA. 16320

p.s. I am new to this area (just moved) and always looking for historical gamers living in the Warren, PA./Jamestown, N.Y./and Erie PA. areas.

There was at least one Marine grenadier company with the main army's grenadiers up through the Brandywine campaign.

Head Quarters Halifax 14th May 1776, the 1st and 2nd MArine's grenadiers were assigned to the 2nd Grenadier Battalion, commanded by Lieut.-Col.
[Hon. Henry] Monckton [45th Regt.] and Major [Hon. Charles] Stuart.

I dont have a note of how long that arragement might have lasted- presumably no later than July 1778, when the original flank corps was disbanded.

42flanker--

Probably sometime between the capture of Philadelphia and 78, yes.

Haven't been able to nail down anything specific (yet).

Happy hunting. There does seems to be less information to hand about the Grenadier battalions than the Light Infantry. That may simply be the result of C21st filters but it seems more LI orderly books have survived. I wonder if John Peebles of the 42nd, who served two turns with the 2nd Gren Battalion mentions the Marines in his journal.

Yes, Old Glory still has Greg N9vak's books.

The Marine grenadier companies, like all marine companies (Lights were garrisoning a fort in Nova Scotia), were ordered back to the fleet around Feb/Mar of 1778, thus they are gone by Monmouth.