"How the Islamic State caliphate was lost" Topic

"It seems such a long time ago: the brazen defiance of Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi on the pulpit of the Mosul Grand Mosque on 4 July 2014, declaring a caliphate; military parades through the streets of Raqqa; the slick videos; the flood of foreign fighters and Muslim sympathisers into Syria and Iraq, the beheading of British and American hostages. Across the two major cities that Islamic State (IS) once controlled – Mosul in Iraq and Raqqa, its de facto capital, in Syria – all that remains today is mostly rubble and ruin.

For a period, it seemed inconceivable – even impossible – to imagine how IS would be overcome. At its height, the terror group was believed to have almost half as many soldiers as the British army, controlled a territory larger than the size of the United Kingdom, and had access to sophisticated weaponry that had been seized from Iraqi forces after they were routed in the campaign to take Mosul.

As IS asserted itself across large parts of the Levant, neither the Syrian Arab Army nor the Iraqi Armed Forces could contain its expansion. The group's fighters proved adept at gaining and holding territory. Had they been content merely with fighting in the region, it is likely that their proto-state would still exist. That much was clear from the actions of Barack Obama, whose administration was adamant that the US should not become embroiled in another Middle East war…."
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Amicalement
Armand

The latest estimate I've heard is there are still about 25,000 fighters there, who apparently have largely gone to ground, and are no doubt hiding in plain sight in Iraq and Syria, so I'm not sure it is really "lost".

Perhaps just temporarily not in control, like they were.

There are also another 5,000 or so in Libya as well.

Sounds like about the same numbers as when they really first popped up on our radar, as a significant threat.

And, of course, they're in Afghanistan too. Don't know the current number there, since it wasn't provided, but they've conducted a number of brazen attacks there as well, too.

The Caliphate might be lost, but they have a presence in Yemen, Nigeria, Egypt, the Philippines, Algeria, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Tunisia and the Caucasus as well as those mentioned above.

"For a period, it seemed inconceivable – even impossible – to imagine how IS would be overcome."

No, it didn't. People with short attention spans just kept complaining that their main force wasn't being broken inside 2 weeks.

ISIS rose to dominance from the power vacuum created when the United States prematurely pulled all its troops out of Iraq.

The ISIS caliphate was destroyed because the United States finally demonstrated resolve from its leaders to go back in country and destroy it.

Hope this doesn't get me banned for politics …

I was baffled when Donald Trump brought up ISIS and it's power during the debates and Hillary Clinton never hit back at all by pointing out that those was in the middle of an offensive against the "Caliphate" that was grinding it's forces into dust and steadily advancing on its cities. Huh???

"The Caliphate might be lost, but they have a presence in Yemen, Nigeria, Egypt, the Philippines, Algeria, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Tunisia and the Caucasus as well as those mentioned above."

These are all* local groups that existed before the "Caliphate" and swore allegiance because of ISIS success. They don't have the capability to shift significant numbers from one area to another. They haven't coordinated any actions.** It's not clear that there's any sort of overarching command or leadership structure or that the "Caliphate's" leadership has any ability to impose discipline on the affiliate groups.

It's a bit like Japan's alliance with the Nazis. The two operated almost completely independently.

*Exceptions?

**Correct me with specific evidence, please.

ISIS probably started to get organized when a deadline was announced for withdrawal of US troops from Iraq.

They were defeated by somewhat coordinated operations of the US, Iraq, Syria, Russia, Turkey, and the Kurds.

The US played a large, but not completely controlling, role in both the rise and fall of ISIS.

emckinney + 1

Amicalement
Armand

Last weekend finished History of Jihad, a encompassing complete history of Islamic wars from the beginning.
Reading that he puts the Islamic State in a defense position today, but still lethal and able to strike out.

I was baffled when Donald Trump brought up ISIS and it's power during the debates and Hillary Clinton never hit back at all by pointing out that those was in the middle of an offensive against the "Caliphate" that was grinding it's forces into dust and steadily advancing on its cities. Huh???

The difference is President Trump has taken the handcuffs off the military. He has given his SecDef freedom to change 'rules of engagement' in Syria, Iraq, and Afghanistan.

One of the reasons why the Vietnam conflict was such a cluster is that President Johnson was making military decisions from the White House; when they should have been made by commanders in the field. Mattis is a Marine. That means he is a leader, as opposed to a manager; and has been given latitude to get the job done. ISIS will always exist in one form or another, but the "caliphate" is dead.

USAFpilot, thanks for not responding to anything I said!

Did you not notice the word, "debates," or were you too fascinated by the clicking of your own keyboard to care?

Maybe lost in translation?

I disagree with the assertion that the caliphate was being ground to dust by the previous administration.