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Action Log

20 Jul 2005 3:59 a.m. PST
by Editor in Chief Bill

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nevinsrip19 Jul 2005 10:34 p.m. PST

Sorry, but I find these frantic posts puzzling. Who cares if younger people prefer other games rather than Historical? As I see it, a hobby is supposed to be an enjoyable pastime. If kids today enjoy playing other than Historical games, well good for them. If all of the older crowd die off, and the Historical faction of the hobby ceases, so what. It's a hobby, not a religion. Why all the fuss. Why the need to force someone into a situation that they are not interested in? Why the recruitment fever? It's not the army. It's a hobby.

Historical war-gaming will rise or fall on it's own merits. If enough people enjoy it, then it will survive. If not then it will die out as it should.

As far as I can see, it is stronger than ever. More and more figure lines appear. New scales spring up. From what I see on this forum Historical war-gaming is on an upswing. I'll be leaving for Historicon tomorrow and when I get there it will be packed. Enough with the hand wringing. Come to a conmvention and see for yourself…..BILL

Rattlehead19 Jul 2005 10:40 p.m. PST

Well, I can see how people would be concerned. The concerned people being those who are younger, but still interested in historicals. So, as the older majority dies off, the number of people available to share this primarily social hobby with dwindles.

That said, I agree that historicals are in good shape as far as I can see. Enough doom and gloom…


Ironwolf19 Jul 2005 11:57 p.m. PST

I can see people wanting to get the "word" out on historical miniature gaming. If people don't know about it then they can't decide if they are interested or not. I can say that if I had found out about historical miniature gaming at a younger age. I'd have joined a club or been more involved at an earlier age. I didn't find out about historicals until I was in high school. Before that I knew about D&D and Traveler so our group played those.
This is why I like the idea Don Perrin is trying to get The Historical Gamer magazine into mainstream businesses. A lot of people out there are interested in military history. I wonder how many of them don't know about historical gaming??

tomrommel120 Jul 2005 12:45 a.m. PST

teach your children how to game (wargame) is the thing to do !!

My two children are into it right now sure they started with scifi etc but now I got them hooked on WWII (FOW)

This duplicates on friends of my children they bring along to game so I hope there is future in wargaming historical. At least here in Germany

General Montcalm20 Jul 2005 12:56 a.m. PST

The pressure to bring new young blood into the hobby comes mainly from the commercial people who have something financial at stake. (or vampires)

If they dont keep growing their consumer base they risk going out of business. So pressure usually starts on this topic from Wargames Magazine editors, from convention organisers and then from all the assorted traders and manufacturers.

Whereas in the "playing" side of the hobby most people dont really care. But they should since more sales mean more investment in more ranges and more periods by makers.

Griefbringer20 Jul 2005 1:08 a.m. PST

General Montcalm: "But they should since more sales mean more investment in more ranges and more periods by makers."

And if the manufacturers start going out of business, then the variety available will be also reduced.


Personal logo Editor in Chief Bill The Editor of TMP Fezian20 Jul 2005 4:00 a.m. PST

And prices will go up…

Sane Max20 Jul 2005 4:37 a.m. PST

and the number of opponents down, and clubs cease from lack of members.


Sane Max20 Jul 2005 4:38 a.m. PST

and the number of opponents down, and clubs cease from lack of members.

But I have to say all the new members of our club have been far from grey… we lure them in by playing games produced by a certain company, then cunningly convert them to Historicals.


nevinsrip20 Jul 2005 5:05 a.m. PST

John the OFM, Wow we agree. I guess we are more alike than either of us would care to admit.

I am saddened that you cannot make it to Historicon this year. It would have been interesting (to say the least) to meet with you. I hope next year will be different…..BILL

vojvoda20 Jul 2005 5:16 a.m. PST

It is the DUTY of every Historical Gamer to recruit at least one gamer a year. Nuff said!
James Mattes
(Growing two at home now) One is hooked at age five, the seven year old might be be lost to video games.

Personal logo John the OFM Supporting Member of TMP In the TMP Dawghouse20 Jul 2005 5:33 a.m. PST

Nevinsro, I was expecting another whine, from the title. But to my pleasant surprise, you said exactly the same things I would have said in reply. 8^)

Goldwyrm20 Jul 2005 6:03 a.m. PST

The "Hobby" is just fine. People are graying in the hobby because we all get old. New gamers will come in to replace us. The best litmus test of the hobby is the number of businesses sustained by it and the variety of products available. From what I can tell gaming and historicals gaming has never been better. So I agree with Nevinsrip.

I'll be at Historicon in about 12-13 hours from now. I'm running games Friday and Saturday night in the Cornwall room. Stop by and say hello.

Lee Brilleaux Fezian20 Jul 2005 6:08 a.m. PST

Here's another take.

The average age of a new model railway hobbyist is, I've been told, 62. Retired or close to it, with a certain amount of cash to waste on himself, and time to play. Tapping into an interest that he's had for awhile, or nostalgia, or some other reason to get involved in an absorbing, detail intensive hobby.

Ring any bells? Perhaps the future of historical gaming is not vast hordes of spotty kids who don't know when the War of 1812 took place, but crusty old geezers who make the OFM look boyish. People who played with Marx and Britains toys in the 1950s, and watched 'Robin Hood' and 'Combat' on black and white TVs.

Prince Alberts Revenge20 Jul 2005 6:11 a.m. PST

Buy your figures and rules now before the fade into (as Mike Tyson says) Bolivian!

Tom Bryant20 Jul 2005 6:25 a.m. PST

I agree. Enough of the "Our hobby is doomed!" talk. Look guys, it WILL be doomed if we don't talk to people and communicate it in an intelligent and interesting manner. There are a lot of folks who are interested in Military History. Our job is to reach them and spread the word to them about Historical Miniatures gaming.

Mr Elmo20 Jul 2005 6:42 a.m. PST

Who cares if younger people prefer other games rather than Historical?

For a war game, it doesn't really matter if the combatants are Space Marines, Wehrmacht, or Knights & Bishops. All war games are (largely) mental competitions with defined rules and mechanics. This is the War game part of the hobby which says as long as the game is fun; nothing else matters.

However, a war game also defines the reality in which the events depicted on the table top take place. For Sci Fi and Fantasy, "reality" is often made up to fit the game mechanics; historicals do not have the luxury of creating their own reality. This is the simulation part of the hobby.

My only concern is that historical war games which do not properly honor the simulation aspect of the hobby can leave the players (especially young players) with a distorted view of reality.

Historical war GAMES run the risk of giving people a false impression of the war and reality of the period you are gaming.

Bryan Shein20 Jul 2005 7:03 a.m. PST

If you have not seen it, try reading this article:
"The Best Defense" is always what?"
By Pete Panzeri, (with input from Mark Zaslavsky and James Curtis)


Syr Hobbs Wargames Sponsoring Member of TMP20 Jul 2005 9:40 a.m. PST

check out Recruits

the intent of this show is to recruit new blood into the hobby check us out.

no greying here

Ed the Two Hour Wargames guy21 Jul 2005 5:44 p.m. PST

Want to recruit younger people, play easy to learn, easy to get into games.

RudyNelson24 Jul 2005 4:06 a.m. PST

It was very nice to see so many teenagers and younger folks at the recent IPMS show in Atlanta.

I have heard about the graying of the hobby since the 1980s when I started. The new blood comes into the hobby but it may just be in an area that you are not playing.

Maybe an urban myth.

Ed Mohrmann Supporting Member of TMP25 Jul 2005 5:28 p.m. PST

Graying of the hobby, indeed ! What have YOU done to
recruit/encourage/engage younger folks !?

Noticed a LOT of younger folks at H'con this past week-
end. They seemed to be enjoying themselves !

dapeters26 Jul 2005 7:39 a.m. PST

I too saw tons of Kids at H'con. But really is growth a serious problem? Is it possible that H'con and HMGS have hit the max limit for the population? Yes all of my friends get older every year. But I don't see the "sky is falling". Yes getting folks interested is a good thing and the HMGS cons do a great job in and of themselves.

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