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"Bad experience with Hotz Mats" Topic

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1,711 hits since 4 Aug 2018
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Personal logo SBminisguy Supporting Member of TMP05 Aug 2018 6:56 a.m. PST

I purchased a set of felt roads for my game board from Hotz Mats, and after almost 2 months of waiting and sending emails initiated a PayPal dispute. This resulted in another month gone by and just some vague excuses and no idea of when or if he'd ship the road terrain to me -- so I have gone ahead and asked PayPal to refund my money.


Joes Shop Supporting Member of TMP05 Aug 2018 7:04 a.m. PST

Thanks for informing us.

Gone Fishing05 Aug 2018 7:17 a.m. PST

Honestly, with his reputation I'm surprised anyone orders from him anymore. Still sorry to hear about your bad experience!

45thdiv Inactive Member05 Aug 2018 7:25 a.m. PST

People should search on TMP for how bad HOTZ mats are and if you do get an order, it's a piece of felt with a bit of spray paint on it.

Personal logo SBminisguy Supporting Member of TMP05 Aug 2018 8:29 a.m. PST

Sure, wish I'd researched it more. No roads for the big game, but hopefully I'll get my money back. Any suggestions on what other companies do good terrain mats, roads/rivers, etc?

IronDuke596 Supporting Member of TMP05 Aug 2018 8:57 a.m. PST

As 45thDiv states there are many threads about the unreliable/non performance of Hotz. I like many others have gone through the routine; no reply well after the the four to five weeks max stipulated, more emails queries but no reply, threaten to cancel order email usually gets a response of "it was sent yesterday" but it was not, finally after about 10 weeks of delay you get your CC company to recover your money.

It is a shame because he does have good products and he used to be quite reliable.

BillyNM05 Aug 2018 8:59 a.m. PST

Not had a good experience either. The advertised products – in my case fields – are very nicely executed with field boundaries aligning well to create a realistic patchwork effect. My mat, when it finally came, just had random field shapes sprayed on it with no attempt to align / tessellate them. I wasn't impressed but could get no answer to any emails asking for recompense or replacement with one that looked like the pictures on the web-site. Just gave up in the end.

MSU John05 Aug 2018 9:32 a.m. PST

I like the roads made by Battlefield Terrain Concepts. Flexible, lot of configurations.

Bravo Two Zero05 Aug 2018 9:46 a.m. PST

Sorry to hear this news. If you had games waiting and delayed because of this then I cannot see how you remain composed. Hard enough to find time to paint and such to then have it fall apart because of this would be devastating.

Now as for roads. Mine are from an ebay seller. They are flat to the table and line up perfectly. It was $50 USD or so for more than enough to traverse true table in a T and some off shoot roads. Mine are for 28mm so they are wide so the price was right. I recommend just searching on ebay.


PJ ONeill05 Aug 2018 9:55 a.m. PST

So if there is a demonstrable lack of service on the part of an advertiser, and the advertisements are still appearing- which party (or both) is being false.

BorisTheSpider Supporting Member of TMP05 Aug 2018 1:43 p.m. PST

Amazed anyone still buys from him. His reputation is terrible and there are many other options.

Ceterman Supporting Member of TMP05 Aug 2018 5:11 p.m. PST

I second Battlefield Terrain Concepts. Great stuff & Doug is one of the most Stand Up guys in the Business. Though I don't see any roads on his "Roads/Rivers" page… I'd give him a call on the Contact Us page. I know he used to make them.

kmfrye07 Aug 2018 10:06 a.m. PST

There's also Monday Knight Productions:


I have several of their mats.

Orcbuddy07 Aug 2018 2:10 p.m. PST

Cigar Box Battle has great mats! I own several and have always been pleased with the quality and their customer service is exceptional.

MiniPigs Supporting Member of TMP13 Aug 2018 5:34 a.m. PST

Battlefield Terrain Concepts makes resin river sections?

Anyway, this Hotz Mats guy sounds like a next level flimflam artist. Why oh why do so many put up with this abuse?

MiniPatton13 Aug 2018 11:00 a.m. PST

Here is another source, I have a set of rivers and roads and I like them. I also have some roads from an eBay guy in the UK, but can't remember the user off the top of my head.


MiniPigs Supporting Member of TMP18 Aug 2018 6:56 a.m. PST


Wargamer's terrain intrigues me. The flock and other stuff stays fast on the latex? How does it look, last and store?

95th Division Supporting Member of TMP18 Aug 2018 9:21 a.m. PST

I've got Wargamers terrain – rivers, wetlands, and a hill. I think they look great on the table and have had no issue with any of the flock/grass/etc. coming off. I store it in the box it comes in (very nice box btw), with paper in between the pieces. He's also very good about keeping you updated on progress of the build.

MiniPigs Supporting Member of TMP18 Aug 2018 12:18 p.m. PST

I see Wargamers Terrain is off until Beginning of September. How long does it usually take to get some product?

95th Division Supporting Member of TMP19 Aug 2018 5:36 a.m. PST

I got my order in about 1.5 months (mine was a large order). I was notified when the order was received and got a couple of emails on the progress and one additional when it was shipped. Plus there is order status info on the website. I was very pleased with the service and the product. (BTW, I ordered the deluxe rivers).

MiniPigs Supporting Member of TMP19 Aug 2018 7:10 a.m. PST

Ja, im thinking of the deluxe rivers and roads too. Any experience with the hills?

Thanks for the info, I will certainly try them out.

95th Division Supporting Member of TMP20 Aug 2018 6:13 a.m. PST

I have one hill (large, single level). I like it – its a gentle slope, more for a rolling type countryside. I will probable buy one with additional levels.

Rallynow Supporting Member of TMP24 Aug 2018 8:12 a.m. PST

Holtz has some well documented customer service issues. Just do a TMP search and you will see. Always check TMP before buying.

I like Monday Knight mats. Cigar Box mats are just too over the top for me. They are too garish. It looks like the game is being played on top of woods and hills instead of in the woods and on the hills. Like playing a board game with miniatures.

MiniPigs Supporting Member of TMP26 Aug 2018 11:40 a.m. PST

I know what you mean with Cigar Box and I avoid the cartoon woods maps and just buy plain terrain. Works for me and they deliver professionally. As a matter of fact, I was involved in their recent kickstarter.

I'll take a look at Monday Knight Mats.

Hotz Mats has taken a beating on this and other forums and it's a wonder anyone still orders from them. I think it's a nod to the problem a lot of gamers have who dont have the know how to make their own good looking terrain or paint their own minis.

That absence of know-how or time opens gamers up to be repeatedly fleeced by people who haven't the stamina to complete orders. Well, in my book, you're either in business or you can pack up shop. Anything in between and you deserved to get slammed

I have gotten my paws singed by a variety of merchants and "artists". In fact, one painter has gone completely dark with all my figures. Haven't heard from him in months. Thus, I definitely check TMP now for any similar concerns about a given merchant/maker/painter and what not.

Joes Shop Supporting Member of TMP27 Aug 2018 4:26 a.m. PST

MiniPigs: +1

95th Division Supporting Member of TMP27 Aug 2018 7:05 a.m. PST

I've got two of the open grassland Cigar Box mats and I'm quite pleased with them. I put my own rivers/roads/trees, etc on them and think it looks good.

Wulfgar27 Aug 2018 3:19 p.m. PST

Though some may disagree, I like the older style of "cartoon woods" on their earlier mats and prefer them to the later versions. People have varying tastes.

I own six of the Cigarbox maps, with another on order through the recent Kickstarter campaign. Since their products and service are both excellent, they're a safe purchase.

MiniPigs Supporting Member of TMP01 Sep 2018 5:25 p.m. PST


Which do you prefer, their Fleecy McFurry mats or the plainer ones we got in the Kickstarter?

Wulfgar02 Sep 2018 6:04 p.m. PST

I think I prefer the shorter nap, MiniPigs. I have one of the McFurry ones from the last kickstarter. But again, people's individual taste varies.

MiniPigs Supporting Member of TMP04 Sep 2018 4:27 a.m. PST

I suppose they're both nice, for variety's sake.

Has anyone ever used this company's mat?


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