"Historicon 2019 Rooms Update" Topic

This is an official update from the Historicon Convention Director and the HMGS Board of Directors. If you have any questions about this information please direct them to director@historicon.org and/or communications@hmgs.org. (Until such time as we have an "HMGS, Inc. Official" account on TMP, I will – as Communications Director – be using my personal account to make this type of announcement.)

Historicon 2019 Rooms Update

The good news is that interest in Historicon 2019 at the Lancaster Convention Center seems to be high.

The bad news is that the initial room block of 250 rooms at the adjoining Lancaster Marriott hotel have been snapped up in just one day!! However, as of our last check, there are still rooms available in the Historicon block at the Hotel Lancaster, which is a 0.3 mile walk from the Lancaster Marriott.

An additional ~100 rooms in the Lancaster Marriott's new tower are not yet available to be booked. When the Marriott makes them available to us we will announce it. In the meantime, we are working with the hotel to see if we can create a "waiting list" for those rooms for when they do become available.

Also, as the block at the Hotel Lancaster fills up, we will negotiate an extension to that block.

Historicon Parking Restatement

To reiterate the parking situation:

1) Each guest room at the Lancaster Marriott receives free parking for one car. You will not see this on Marriott's central reservation system, but it is in the contractual relationship with the hotel and the convention center.

2) All other attendees of Historicon will get parking for $7 USD a day in the attached parking lot and at other local parking lots operated by the city's parking authority.

Any other speculation you see regarding these facts is incorrect.

we are working with the hotel to see if we can create a "waiting list" for those rooms for when they do become available.

Will these be available at the same price?

250 rooms for a convention that might have 3000 attendees? I guess if 12 to a room that is enough.

Yep, that's been my concern from beginning.

I believe even the Host had less than 300 rooms operational, and probably only a percentage of those were "blocked" to HMGS.

The difference is downtown apparently has only one other hotel within walking distance? And HMGS has a 100 room block there. The Host had at least 3-4 (depending on your fitness to walk) within walking distance.

The Host also had enough free parking for everyone, well nearly so. Considering the complaints about the walk to the dealer hall the walk to the convention site downtown is going to be interesting.

Personally I hate driving in downtown areas and avoid it whenever possible.

I am hoping the other rooms at the two hotels will be opened up at non HMGS rates?

If people can still book at the main hotel then maybe less of an issue depending on rate charged? (depends on how many rooms that can be obtained this way?)

At FCC I managed to always get one of the walkable hotels but at non HMGS rates which were not too far off HMGS rate.

The last HCon I was one of many using the nearby hotels as I would not touch the Host with a barge pole until I know they are 100% completed, which still seems some way off…

After doing this for 4 years at FBURG …

First your buddies are calling in and reserving large blocks – 5, 10 etc. for their group/club. These typically get reduced or even cnx. Unfortunately this is almost always AFTER the block closes so HMGS loses commission AND those who come in have to pay full rate. Look at 2012 Commission revenue vs 2013 when I took it over – I doubled $$ thru aggressive room management.

Second the block is 223 rooms at peak. Its a 250 room hotel but dont forget staff/comp rooms. I posted the whole block somewhere. At FEC we used about 1000 room nites in 4-6 hotels. That's just those we got commission for not everyone at the con. So we (BOD) knew this would be an issue unless the extra rooms got done. Thats why John went out and got the other hotel.
Kevin

250 rooms for a convention that might have 3000 attendees? I guess if 12 to a room that is enough.

Well, since a huge portion of attendees are "day trippers" we'd only have to pack 7 to a room.

Just so that we have the correct numbers:

The Lancaster Marriott currently has 299 rooms, with approximately 100 more coming on line in the new Tower. We have a contracted 250 room block in the Marriott (of which 223 are "revenue" rooms). Why don't we have 299? Because a) a chain like the Marriott is always going to keep a few rooms aside for its rewards members and corporate clients; and b) no hotel is going to give you the "run of the hotel" until you are a proven entity with them.

The Hotel Lancaster has 139 rooms, of which we have a block of 40 rooms. Why not more? Because as a new customer, that's all they were willing to initially block out. As we fill out that block we can – and will – negotiate for additional rooms to be added to the block.

So we have the potential for around 450 rooms between the two hotels (assuming they hold a few back for their other customers).

If you have any questions about this information please direct them to director@historicon.org and/or communications@hmgs.org.

John Hollier
HMGS, Inc. Board of Directors
Director, Marketing and Communications

Hmmm so let's say that 450 rooms will allow approximately 1000 attendees that minus any day trippers (500?) will say leave maybe 1000 people needing to stay further out…. (Assuming we hit 2,500 for the event)

I have not looked at the options further out…

I guess I was lucky to get a room in the Marriott and I have just stumped up the airfare to fly over….

I am counting the days already…

;)

BTW I forgot my wife and I stayed at the Lancaster Arts hotel (we stayed on sight seeing after this years Hcon) which is a bit of a walk away but free car park and very nice rooms. So maybe an option for others?

link

Wow. That is a nice looking hotel. I wonder if it's by the Cork Factory?

just making sure on how this all works

since we sold out in 1 day, that would imply the rates should be higher in the future and that HMGS was not incompetent for not being able to get them to negotiate significantly lower rates.

In addition to the Hotel Lancaster (0.3 miles from the LCC), there is also the Lancaster Arts Hotel (highlighted by holien) with 63 rooms and the Cork Factory Hotel with 77 rooms, both about 1 mile away.

John Hollier
HMGS Board of Directors
Director, Marketing & Communications

This is an official update from the HMGS Board of Directors. If you have any questions about this information please direct them to communications@hmgs.org. (Until such time as we have an "HMGS, Inc. Official" account on TMP, I will – as Communications Director – be using my personal account to make this type of announcement.)

Thanks John, I for one appreciate the "Total Communication" idea.

…….since we sold out in 1 day, that would imply the rates should be higher in the future and that HMGS was not incompetent for not being able to get them to negotiate significantly lower rates.

Actually the BOD was so competent that they locked into the current rate for 3 years.

So HCon is downtown Lancaster for the next three years?

We need more rooms BOD otherwise it is not looking so attractive. Right now the going rate is $170 USD per night online.
I balked at the Host for $159 USD online. The punters have to get in too in order for monetary transactions to take place.

So with tax etc.. were close to $ 200. per night ?

Holien,
Yes – and if you are an HMGS member you can see the signed contracts in the "HMGS: Members" group.

All three contracts are at the same price, while the 2020 contract can be cancelled for no penalty up to about a month after the 2019 convention (the "no penalty" cancellation clauses are usually 1 year+).

Thanks

John H.

Hi John, thanks, yes I am a HMGS member but rarely use the site, I guess I missed that news…

Let's hope it works out next year…

The venue certainly looks very good for those that can stay on site.

We need more rooms BOD otherwise it is not looking so attractive. Right now the going rate is $170.00 USD USD per night online.

I believe John explained this up thread.

The punters have to get in too in order for monetary transactions to take place.

What's stopping them? They just can't stay at the Marriot (until the other rooms open up that are still being completed).

The venue certainly looks very good for those that can stay on site.

Yes, the venue looks very good regardless of where one is staying.

The hotel issue is no problem for me as I am going to stay at a nice hotel 10 minutes away with a direct shot downtown so I can use my Wyndham Rewards points. For a full suite that's either free or $ 52.00 +/- a night depending on how many points I use. I'm happy.

So parking is $ 7.00 a day? I'm happy here as well, though I do wonder if that includes in and out privileges.

My only concern is loading and unloading. The convention site seems to have ample loading docks, but their instruction pdf specifically indicates that once a car has been emptied at the loading dock, it must be moved immediately. The question I have is how do we secure our gaming material at the loading dock while we are parking our car? Or did I misread something?

Ciao, Colonel Bill

ageofeagles.com

How does one get in-line for one of these rooms should they/ when they open up?

I really hope this move works out for HMGS, the board and the attendees.

It's close to a year out, but as of today, I'm going to sit this one out.

I missed the one day window to get a room at the Marriot and as a vendor, to stay at my usual hotel in Lancaster and as a result drive to the site and jockey for a parking spot each day, not to mention not knowing the exact procedure and how smooth it will be to unload on Wednesday and more importantly, load out on Sunday is too much of an X factor for me at this stage of the game.

I wasn't too keen anyway on being jammed into the Marriot and eating my meals either there or in the surrounding area; I'm a creature of habit, I like getting my van after a day of selling a driving to a restaurant, decompressing, having a nice meal, then heading back to the hotel to hang out in the gaming area, then when I've had my fill, jumping in the van and driving out to my hotel and winding down.

I like it that way, don't want to change it, but hey, that's just me.

I'll stick with Cold Wars and Fall In and take it from there; that said, the board and John in particular have been great as far as communication, as a dealer I can't ask for much more.

It is what it is.

I wasn't too keen anyway on being jammed into the Marriot and eating my meals either there or in the surrounding area; I'm a creature of habit, I like getting my van after a day of selling a driving to a restaurant, decompressing, having a nice meal, then heading back to the hotel to hang out in the gaming area, then when I've had my fill, jumping in the van and driving out to my hotel and winding down.

George, I don't want to seem argumentative, but how does a con centered at the Marriot preclude you from doing any of those things?

"George, I don't want to seem argumentative, but how does a con centered at the Marriot preclude you from doing any of those things?"

Your not being argumentative.

Going back and forth to a downtown location regarding the parking situation is the X factor to me. The FCC was easy to get back and forth from, as is the Host.

A downtown location; not so much.

Again, this is my personal feeling, your mileage may vary.

Funny when I asked on the HMGS Facebook group if the room reservations we're legit – as in, did people book large blocks of rooms, my post was questioned. Yet here Kevin admits that large blocks of rooms are snapped up by clubs, then often cancelled at the last minute. Might I suggest that rooms should first be offered to the GMs whom make the convention work, and that room reservations be limited to two per customer.

Might I suggest that rooms should first be offered to the GMs

Yea…. that isn't ripe for abuse. It was announced when the rooms were available. There is nothing wrong with first come, first serve.

The issue is only that there are few rooms to begin with, and the options (if you can call it that) are to pay for parking if you are not staying on site. Does not work for many GMs and here is why:

I run a higher end game with lots of terrain, etc. I usually bring several large boxes of stuff. If I come up, park ($7), then later have to bring the car over to unload, then re-park ($7), run the game, then go get the car to pick up my stuff, then re-park again ($7) – that's $21 USD in/out parking fees in one day.

That is unless one would suggest arriving shortly before set up, then leaving after the game is done. Is that a good idea to propose?

What if someone were putting on multiple games over a couple of days? Ridiculous.

Also, who watches the stuff once dropped off, or watches it while you go back get your vehicle? What if someone makes an accusation that something is missing or broken? Who assumes liability for that?

Yes, they could have given GMs first crack at the rooms. Once a GM registered they could have given out something to give them 24 hours to book it or not. If not, then the room reverts back to the pile. After a certain date, the rooms become available to all.

Not wishing the con ill, but this is a con in a small (country) city that seems to have all the drawbacks of a facility in a larger city (think BCC). The BCC was nice inside too, but the in/out issues were the problem. At least the BCC had lots of close by hotels within walking distance.

Perhaps others are willing to pay the in/out fees, or their friends were some of the ones that snapped up all the rooms for them (many of which will be dropped anyway, according to Kevin).

I have read a number of messages behind the scenes from other GMs who might wait out the first year to see how it goes getting stuff in and out, letting the system work out the kinks.

And yes TheKing30, there is something wrong with first come, first serve in this situation. It does not factor in any allowance or encouragement for GMs and the games they run – which is the heart of a wargame convention. That is unless you are willing to pick up all the in/out parking fees.

"HMGS negotiated the $7.00 USD USD rate for all of the downtown parking garages with in and out privileges!!"

I saw the above posted on another thread by Trugamer.

I do get the concerns but the cost issue seems to have been dealt with?

That is unless you are willing to pick up all the in/out parking fees.

How do you know that there are in/out charges?

I was informed that the secondary garages may not have in/out privileges as I originally stated however, the BOD is busily working on some type of arrangement to mitigate additional parking fees. There will also be free shuttles in operation.

Something else to consider is there will be ample GM storage.You do not necessarily need to drop off/pick up your gaming paraphernalia on the same day. There will be abundant secured storage.

HMGS staff will be stationed at the drop off areas to watch items once they are dropped off and moved to nearby storage rooms.

Then you can park your vehicle for the wknd.

TRU

It's good to know that staff will be available to watch at the drop-off areas and that there will be ample onsite GM storage. These were issues I contemplated -- and I live in Lancaster. With the above info, I can plan to drive to the site, unload my stuff, park, take the stuff to storage, and then go home.

And yes TheKing30, there is something wrong with first come, first serve in this situation. It does not factor in any allowance or encouragement for GMs and the games they run – which is the heart of a wargame convention. That is unless you are willing to pick up all the in/out parking fees.

Sorry – I can't agree with you. The rooms were announced. I shouldn't get a room because a GM MIGHT want the room? And what if the GM pulls a no-show game?

The theory is too full of holes that can be exploited.

It is still a long way off and the CD and BOD are clearly in tune with the membership and possible issues.

While we might not get in / out privileges at all the car parks it sounds like there are enough mitigation measures being put in place.

I guess as these are firmed up they will be properly announced and people can plan appropriately.

The shuttle bus sounds promising for those unlucky to get a local hotel.

Certainly worth raising concerns so that they can (where possible) be taken into account.

How about doing what WBC does, you are charged one night up front, if you cancel more than 60 days out you lose only the deposit. Cancel less than 60 days out you lose HALF the total. I bet that would cut down on people booking rooms who have no idea if they will actually go.

I was informed that the secondary garages may not have in/out privileges as I originally stated however, the BOD is busily working on some type of arrangement to mitigate additional parking fees. There will also be free shuttles in operation.

That is my understanding also. I'm not too worried.

And unlike some people who will sit out GMing during the first H'con at Lancaster CC, I'm already thinking about doing the opposite. I have a hotel room so I should have no issues putting on a game. Now I just need to talk to TheKing30 and get him to paint more Samurai. Hint Hint.

Me too Bowman. I have been doing 75th anniversary games for Sicily and Italy. I may continue in Italy. June 5th 1944 Rome was taken. I need to do a little research but I will be a GM and I have procured a room right at Penn Square.

Let me be clear. I hope they do find solutions to this situation.

As one of the original crew that worked the old GM desk, I know there were concerns back then about maintaining and storing stuff. Of course this will mean more staff are needed to man this. It was my understanding that HMGS was having problems finding volunteers, but perhaps that too has been addressed.

While the rooms were announced, I think it caught quite a few people by surprise how quickly they went. There should have been a limit on how many rooms people were allowed to reserve. As Kevin has pointed out, many will be cancelled and returned to the pile too late to help.

And in case you missed it, one of the above posters just made my point about GMs possibly restricting their participation:

"With the above info, I can plan to drive to the site, unload my stuff, park, take the stuff to storage, and then go home."

I guess we'll see how many others do this too.

Let me be clear. I hope they do find solutions to this situation.

As one of the original crew that worked the old GM desk, I know there were concerns back then about maintaining and storing stuff. Of course this will mean more staff are needed to man this. It was my understanding that HMGS was having problems finding volunteers, but perhaps that too has been addressed.

While the rooms were announced, I think it caught quite a few people by surprise how quickly they went. There should have been a limit on how many rooms people were allowed to reserve. As Kevin has pointed out, many will be cancelled and returned to the pile too late to help.

And in case you missed it, one of the above posters just made my point about GMs possibly restricting their participation:

"With the above info, I can plan to drive to the site, unload my stuff, park, take the stuff to storage, and then go home."

And in case you missed it, one of the above posters just made my point about GMs possibly restricting their participation:

To my reading that is not the point he was making. He lives in town, and will sleep in his own bed knowing that his stuff is secured at the convention. Maybe I missed something?

Hmmm I think he was saying it will help as all he has to do is unload once and then park his car at home (as he lives locally) I guess he can then just get dropped off at the venue by his wife or friends?

Not putting any sort of cancellation penalty into the reservation process was a mistake IMO. WBC used to sell out the week of the prior year's con. Such early sellouts were in some cases people "gaming the system" . This dissuaded people from attending when it sold out so fast. They eventually put into place the penalties that lindrp mentions above. Some whined that they are harsh. But they force people to be committed to booking and now the Seven Springs venue doesn't sellout right away, giving people some time to figure out their plans then book . They also prioritize long term stays over short term ones – those that stay longest get first crack before short timers. Something to consider for the future.

And WBC does not allow booking until around January 15. That would help also.

Good point. GenCon housing block doesn't open til around the same time either. Then again, their block sells out in about an hour….

Less than an hour for GenCon and you are kept in a computer que, never seen anything like it and never been lucky in getting anything from the block….

And unlike some people who will sit out GMing during the first H'con at Lancaster CC, I'm already thinking about doing the opposite. I have a hotel room so I should have no issues putting on a game. Now I just need to talk to TheKing30 and get him to paint more Samurai. Hint Hint.

Hint taken, friend. How many do we need?

And in case you missed it, one of the above posters just made my point about GMs possibly restricting their participation:

"With the above info, I can plan to drive to the site, unload my stuff, park, take the stuff to storage, and then go home."

I guess we'll see how many others do this too.

I was the poster quoted above, and the meaning ascribed to what I wrote was not at all what I intended. There's enough purple prose circulating about this issue that I don't want anything I say to be perceived as adding fuel to the fires of complaint about the new venue.

My meaning was this: BECAUSE I am fortunate enough to live in Lancaster where many of the HMGS East cons are held (including Historicon 2019), I will adjust to the new situation at the Marriott by doing exactly what I described above.

Once my GM stuff is safely ensconced in a secure area at the Marriott, I will drive home AND THEN WALK TO THE CON for the duration (until Sunday morning, when I will schlep over all my flea market stuff to sell and also take my GM stuff home). I will run games; I will volunteer; I will shop at the dealers area; I will buy and sell at the flea markets; Most of all, I will see my friends and have fun.

In no way was I intending to imply (or flatly state) that I was going to take all my stuff to the Marriott and then not attend Historicon. What would be the point of that? It would only make my face hurt from having cut off my nose.