"How much do you pay to put on a Convention Game?" Topic

I was going to put on a Demo game locally but we ran out of enthusiasm for one reason or another.

I was quoted a fee of $25 USD per table per day which would have worked out at $100 USD for the weekend. I wanted a 8x6 with no provision for a side table to organise models etc and often find the area rather cramped.

The total cost would be AUS$90, 50 pounds or US$66.

Split three or four ways thats not too expensive but we have often only have two playing.

I'm just wondering what others pay?

Here in the US we don't pay to put on a game, often we get free admission and some goodies(T-shirt, dice). But conventions here seem to be completely different than in the rest of the world

Here in Canada, things are the same as in the US. Plus there are no Demonstration games as understood in the British Isles (if that's what you mean).

You PAY to provide entertainment?

Interesting. Been organizing and going to gaming
conventions for a very long time and I never heard
of having to pay to put on a game !

The local Denver Convention tried it over last few years. You had to buy a $50 USD con badge and for every Hour you put on a game you got $5 USD back. It didn't goes so good, So they finally drop it.

I've never paid anything, except normal convention fees.

There's a local gaming con that I've never bothered to attend because they want me to pay to put on a game. Screw that. And the horse they rode in on.

What PzGeneral said.

There are costs to run a game at a convention: gas to drive to and from the convention (under $10 USD for the most distant convention that I attend -- less with our new hybrid); maybe a hotel room ($100 or so); food (maybe $20 USD per day); printer paper for play aids and rules summaries (less than $1 USD).

Other expenses are just part of the hobby itself, like paint, miniatures, etc., and I wouldn't count them toward convention costs.

Conventions rely on game masters to volunteer to run games and fill the place with gamers, so they give us free admission, sometimes prizes to give to the winners of our games, and of course support like tables, chairs, etc. for our game.

On the other hand, conventions have a vendor hall where various companies sell games and related things. Local game shops, game publishers, prop makers, and others set up booths, and they pay the convention based on how much floor space they need.

Some of those vendors may run demonstrations of their games, either at their booths or, in larger conventions, at demonstration tables that they pay for.

I don't know what vendors pay for booths or demonstration tables.

Pay? I've never heard of that in Canada. They should pay me for putting on a game!

I am in NZ where it seems to be normal to pay to put on a Game.

Usually its just a Demonstration game where the public can have a look and ask questions about the game.

I have friends who pay to put on Demonstration games of their new rules where the Public can participate, but they don't put them on very often.

To be fair the conventions where we put games on are free entry for the Public, so the organisers have to cover their costs somehow.

I usually cover my costs by selling off my unwanted wargaming items. Of course this does not cover the cost of the Armies etc as that is my Hobby and don't expect to make any money on that.

Should be interesting to hear what happens in the UK as I seem to remember paying an entrance fee both times I went to Salute and another convention, which I can not remember the name of.

sometimes if you are on good terms with a Hobby store. they may let you demo a game for free. worth a shot. good luck on your endeavour.

Historicon charges me to put on games.
I have to join the HMGS for one year in order to be allowed to put a game on.
This would be true for any non-HMGS member wishing to put a game on at Historicon. All must pay this fee.

I cannot just book in to the show after crossing the Atlantic. It is not that big a fee. i think HMGS cost is about $25 USD ?
So yes, we do pay to put on games in the US.
UK shows do not usually charge to put games on.

I should add. Anyone who comes over from UK to help run the games, also has to pay the $25. USD This often makes the cost of putting on a game at Historicon about $100. USD We usually put on 9, four hour games (4 guests per game).

I've never paid to put on a game in the UK (and I wouldn't do so). I expect to get free admission and some shows give a tea/coffee voucher (which is a nice touch) and Partizan gives a free figure and all the games are put in a raffle for some vouchers to spend on trade stands at the show.

Never paid to put on a game, either demo or participation, in the UK. Sounds like it is particular to the southern hemisphere.

My question to those who attend conventions who charge to run a game. That is:
* What percent are demo-games that are being used to promote the sale of a gaming product? (i.e. rules, miniatures, scenery, etc.).

* What percent are games where gaming clubs flaunt their local gaming skills (i.e. painting, building scenery, etc.)?

* What percent are games where the gaming club just wants to run a game at a convention?

I am just curious regarding the reason for running a game at some of these 'Pay' to hoist conventions???????

Tom Semian
Avalon, PA. 15202

HMGS Midwest charges game judges at Little Wars for general admission which seems silly to me. It's not a lot of money, but it is annoying enough to keep me from running games, given all the work that it takes to set up and take down the games by myself.

Same as DAF, Trumpeter Salute in Vancouver and Enfilade in Olympia Washington both charge an admission fee.

Martin, the HMGS is a no profit organization that charges a modest membership for administrative expenses, bookkeeping, legal fees, mailings, etc. The convention entry fee is to offset the cost of renting the facilities, tables, chairs, etc., etc. There are costs paid out before you and I run our games. The costs to you is the same, whether you put on a game or not. We are not billed to run games. Certainly nothing like what the OP is talking about.

Paying a fee to RUN a game would be a non-starter. Paying the same admission as everyone else is no problem, not that I object to being given some consideration as a GM. The cost of the hobby itself, getting to the convention, room, meals etc dwarfs any admission fee regardless.

If the GM's decided it wasn't worth the cost or time spent to design a scenario, paint the miniatures, organization the event, fine tool the rules or charts, collect and transport all the terrain and miniatures, gas up the transport vehicle, coral fellow gamers (with their entrance costs factored in) to attend. and purchase food (or MRE), then the conventions would just be a vendor's showcase for wares with no "display of the product in use" present. Gaming conventions would basically die out faster then you could cancel the PEL printing.

Personally I don't mind a low basic entrance fee (under $25 USD) for a weekend to go towards the hard venue costs. Typical for our local HMGS-PSW non-profit conventions. Charge per day no, unless the total cost for weekend totals under the mentioned $25 USD limit. But I will not pay to enter a convention which is basically a "corporation profit generation effort" to make money and not truly supportive of the hobby or get my mind around a "table cost" expense format. Go higher on the actual entrance costs or pay for table space to present an event or game scenario. I would stay home and save the costs towards more gaming stuff. The vendors would lose out possible revenue, and in short course the convention would disappear, which has happened to several on the western USA (or changed into something new). I have attended conventions for over 40 years now…two to four per year so I can say I am experienced to the convention scene.

Out here on the western USA just convincing GM's and gaming clubs to stage a game convention event is the problem it seems. Many of the larger established club groups refuse to attend the regional conventions as the costs and time effort involved are calculated by them. Some to the extension of old issues between gaming groups. They stay and play in their fully furnished AC game rooms, food and drink at hand, no transportation expense, and have more fun without the headache of transportation (or risk miniature damage) and staging the event in a regional convention ballroom. So to them any entrance fee is a big stop for attendance. Even my own gaming group I see this factor towards attendance. Some of these established club group may have 20+ gamer membership (or larger) for size example or impact on the regional gaming. They are are known for and stage award winning events, specialization of terrain and painted miniatures, pictures taken and published in magazines stuff and thus are not simple "two table boards and green cloth" crowd.

Should be an interesting theme read here. Maybe the world is changing and I haven't noticed.

Bob, the question was whether a fee is charge for putting a game on. Yes a fee is charged for putting a game on.
The discussion was not widened as to where the funds go, or whether they are well spent.
I was merely replying to the very clear question posed. ie How much do you pay to put on a convention game. If I do not pay the money asked then I cannot put on a game.

If anyone comes along to our show in weymouth we will certainly not require a fee or insist they join our club in order to put a game on. In fact we often give money in order to help with parking fees.

The original poster was talking of $66 USD for the weekend. Historicon cost me $100 USD for the weekend.

Martin, you are conflating an annual fee (HMGS membership) with table rental (original post). If you chose, you and your 4 friends could now attend and run games at the other conventions for "free"

In my case I help with the Brigade Games booth and get a "free" (Lon has to pay for it) badge. I choose to put on games and therefore join HMGS, thus paying $25. USD Since I also always run at least 3 games per convention, my attendance fee is free(HMGS member as a GM).
My games are looser so I do not need a GM per player (which is king of unusual). I do have some good friends that usually help me pack up at the end of the con.

In the great scheme of expenses this is on the order of a meal or two over the course of 10 convention days (Historicon, Fall In, Cold Wars), much less lodging and transportation.

The US/Canadian model seems to be focused on participation gaming, with enough games for most of the attendees to binge game. We have concurrent tournaments and especially the big cons have shopping opportunities that do not exist elsewhere.

I have not had to PAY to run a game, several time I have had my admission refunded to one degree or another (Cons in several areas in the US West).

Now my out of pocket to have all they "stuff" needed to run a Con game, well, let's not start on that.

Out here in Tucson, ther isn't much to go to which offers any historical gaming. So I opted to help and run a few games at Rincon which comes out in the fall. It is mostly fantasy and role playing. The weekend pass is $50. USD But…wait for it…if I want to run a game I have to pay an entrance fee. More to come…so if I ran five games I can get in for free. So I opted to run four…I knew there would be little to no interest in historical's…but you never know. I saved a few bucks and maybe spend more in the dealer room or what have you.
Overall…a waste of my time and effort.

Years ago at Hurricon, Tacticon and Ghengiscon…did not have to pay. There was a very small entrance fee like $5.00 USD, nothing to break the bank.

P.

A bargain
Maybe i could pop over for the other shows. Just a 12,000 mile round trip.

In the southern USA shows, I have seen both demo/ game masters get in free or get a discount for running a game at a very expensive entry fee show. Never pay extra to put on games.

I like the New Zealand concept: game masters pay to run the games and the players get in for free :-)

I have not done a game at Historicon for a number of years, but I remember game masters getting in for free if they ran a certain number of player game hours. I believe HMGS at one time gave away articles of clothing to the GM's.

Given the hefty budget of HMGS east, I think they should allow new members one free entry to a con, to test the waters

the question was whether a fee is charge for putting a game on. Yes a fee is charged for putting a game on.
The discussion was not widened as to where the funds go, or whether they are well spent.

Many of those responding to you are HMGS members, who also pay for entry at the conventions. They understand that they are not charged to put on a game. Sorry you don't see that.

If anyone comes along to our show in weymouth we will certainly not require a fee or insist they join our club in order to put a game on.

Thanks for the invite. But with all due respect, unless your show at Weymouth costs in the excess of 100k US$, we are talking apples to oranges. Finances dictate policy.

UK shows do not usually charge to put games on.

UK shows also don't run for 4 consecutive days. Salute is one day.

Hi all,

I run games at conventions in Ca. Some are big and some are small. These are Conquest Sac, Kublacon, Pacificon, etc…

In all these, if I run a Game I get in free. Granted, there's a ‘minimum commitment' to get the free pass. The price saved is probably around $50 USD bucks for the weekend, which at least is enough to offset a meal or two.

I don't think I would host a game if I had to pay $50 USD as well.

Hi all thanks for the replies. Hope I did not stir things up.

I have put on two Demo Games already this year hence my lack of enthusiasm this time round. The first I paid to put the game on but I think it was only NZ$25 The second we were invited by IPMS to put a game on which was free.

Can I just say again that our games are just putting a decent looking game on, which happens to be our current projects. The public are invited to look but not touch which seems to be different to other Countries.

Thanks, D A THB. Nothing stirred, I think. Shaken, perhaps. Let me see whether I can summarize a bit and cover what we mostly assume.

Yes, Demonstration games are known in North America, because we read about them in the British glossies, but pretty much the conventions have participation games. No convention I know of charges to put on a game as such. A game master often pays the same general admission as everyone else, but it's not uncommon for that to be waived if he puts on enough games or attracts enough players.

As a general rule, the big North American historical miniatures conventions--Historicon, Cold Wars, Fall In and Little Wars--run for days in big convention centers--hundreds and sometimes thousands of games over three or four days. They have vendors, who are charged for tables, but not enough to carry the show, so gamers pay. By comparison Salute is more of a trade show--good games, but not so many, and frequently demonstration games.

Lots more variance with the smaller local cons, and I think Wargame Rabbit's observations apply more generally: if a club has a regular comfortable meeting place, driving two hours--which is nothing here--to attend a convention not that much larger than the regular club meetings is a hard sell, made harder by admission charges. I've seen conventions in both the US and the UK which were smaller than game days in some clubs. The bigger the convention, the more games and dealers available and the bigger the attraction. But starting the "virtuous circle" is tricky.

As an HMGS-East member, I pay yearly dues of $25 USD (as some have already said here) to support the infrastructure of the organization. If I put on a game (minimum number of player-hours = 16 last I checked) at an HMGS-East convention, I get in free to that convention. If I put on more than one game, the same still applies.

A smaller gaming group such as the H.A.W.K.S. (a local group in Maryland close to my home) do not require me to be a dues-paying member in order to put on a game at their annual (two-day) game "day". As a game-master, I do pay a (reduced) admission fee, which I think is perfectly reasonable given that I don't pay maintenance dues to the organization. But I'm not charged to put on a game; I'm charged for attending the game day, except that because I also put on a game I get a reduced charge.

All of these games are for participation of the other attendees. That's my story, and I'm sticking to it. ;-)

What is the standard at the biggest German Show "Tactica" in Hamburg?
- Only participation games.
- Free entrance for game organizers. (But you have to be accepted. Not every table meets the standard.)
- The yearly special miniature is a free giveaway for game organizers.
- At the evening is an organized dinner, you have to pay, but you are invited.

As far as I know, all of the club days/conventions in the Baltimore/DC region charge an entrance fee (though some are reduced) to GMs putting on games. I can't speak for other GMs, but I rarely play in other games at conventions. I guess I get the local cons charging GMs something "if" the GMs play in other games.

Some of the local con entrance fees seem a bit high to me, but I have no idea what their costs are either. Many don't offer a day rate, preferring to charge full weekend even for day trippers. Personally, I think that is a mistake, but it's their con.

The battle for free admission to HMGS cons was a long and bloody battle. The situation shifted from board to board way back when – free admission for putting on a game; refunded admission for putting on a game – refund came Sunday morning only (if the appointed person with the funds showed up, which wasn't always the case); free hat and t-shirt, but no free admission; etc. IIRC, it was Pete and the then BoD who finally nailed down free admission for GMs at HMGS cons and it hasn't changed since.

Zero – don't go!

For the friendly local gaming club, I bring figs/rules/terrain – I figure that is enough

When I have people over I provide chips/beer and soda pop

For local cons, I guess it depends on what the goal is for the con. If the goal is to showcase the club's games, that's fine. Clubs should not be surprised then if non-member GMs don't support it if they are charged a fee. That's my take away from the comments here so far.

HMGS is a different matter – it seems to make a lot of money and therefore there is less need to charge GMs.

By comparison Salute is more of a trade show--good games, but not so many, and frequently demonstration games.

No. Most of the games at Salute in the UK are participation games.

Can I just say again that our games are just putting a decent looking game on, which happens to be our current projects. The public are invited to look but not touch which seems to be different to other Countries.

That's what we in the UK would call a demo game.

Hey redmist1122 (greg P) Long time no hear. this Bill Daniel In Denver with the CMH. Unfortunately all the Conventions in Denver have gone for profit.

I would suggest the wonderful example of a Wargame Convention is Recruits in Lee Summit Mo in September. Held at a High School. Flat fee of $5 USD for the whole weekend. Great time for GM, Players, Dealers. I drive 9 hours to sell stuff and run games.

Hey Bill,
I heard something quirky about the old cons in Denver area.

I definitely missed the cons in the Denver area and friendships made back in the day.

P.

Just for the record, the Call To Arms convention that the OP is referring to is the sole fund raiser for the Wellington Warlords club. Our membership fees do not cover the club costs and without CTA making a modest profit the club (which has been in existence for 45 years) would not be able to survive.

Public entry to the 2 day convention is free but we charge for participation in the various competitions or for putting on a demo or participation game. Traditionally the GMs would look to recover a portion of the table costs from their players but that is very much up to them.

J Davies
Club Secretary

DA THB, I assume that you were referring to NZ$ in the original post and that the TMP software inserted "USD". If, however, you are offering $100 USDUS for $90 USDAus, I would like to exchange several million Aus$ for US$ with you.

Little Wars in Melbourne (which runs for one day in a suburban town hall) has gold coin entry ($1 or $2 USD), but I put folding money in the tin and ask the players in my games to do the same. I suspect those of us at the bottom of the planet are more likely to just be grateful for any sort of convention and prepared to put our hands in our pockets. I can't fathom why anyone would be prepared to spend thousands on miniatures, terrain, etc, but not attend a convention because it costs $25 USD (for three or four days!).

The deal for Colours (southern UK) is that traders pay significantly for their tables, members of the public pay a nominal entrance fee and competitors get free entrance as part of their entry fee to their competition. Exhibitors, be they clubs or private groups demonstrating a commercial product, get their entrance and table free BUT are not allowed to trade in any way from that table. Bring & Buy [host flea market] charges a nominal up-front ticket fee and 10%, risk fully loaded to the seller. For those free club tables, preference is given to participation over demonstration games but it is recognised that some of the more lavish demonstrations do generate good publicity for the show. First come first served seems to work fairly well for us.

If hosting organisations are charging for tables we would give away free, you have a local excess of demand over supply. We recognise that good demonstration and participation games are an attraction in their own right, to the extent that in the past I've specifically visited other shows to headhunt groups who might want to appear at Colours. Quality, not revenue. Your traders are your principle source of revenue and they want footfall, ideally flush [well-financed] footfall inspired to spend. Keep your quality high, keep your traders happy, and all else will flow from there.