Help support TMP

"Churchill on Lee's victory at Gettysburg" Topic

13 Posts

All members in good standing are free to post here. Opinions expressed here are solely those of the posters, and have not been cleared with nor are they endorsed by The Miniatures Page.

For more information, see the TMP FAQ.

Back to the ACW Discussion Message Board

Areas of Interest

American Civil War

860 hits since 24 Jul 2018
©1994-2019 Bill Armintrout
Comments or corrections?

Personal logo StoneMtnMinis Supporting Member of TMP24 Jul 2018 9:35 a.m. PST

This fascinating artiles was referenced on the Society of Daisy yahoo group.

It is a very thoughful article on historical what-if's written by Churchill.



lloydthegamer Supporting Member of TMP24 Jul 2018 9:59 a.m. PST

Churchill at his worst, what a bunch of horse droppings.

Pan Marek Supporting Member of TMP24 Jul 2018 10:07 a.m. PST

It illustrates why Churchill was the right man for the right job in 1939. And, why he was voted out immediately after the war was over.
His time, and prejudices, had passed.

robert piepenbrink Supporting Member of TMP24 Jul 2018 10:16 a.m. PST

No Lloyd, that was the GK Chesterton essay in the same series. There's a single volume with the lot of them titled If It Had Happened Otherwise. That generation of alternate world stories--and you can see it in Bring the Jubilee, too--was prone to just inverting their own present rather than imagining a truly different one.

But the Chesterton was the worst Chesterton I know. Don John of Austria would rescue Mary Queen of Scots and not behave like any historical 16th Century Catholic monarchs because--well, they just wouldn't, that's all!

People want their chosen alternate history to be the earthly paradise. What you'd actually get is a different array of problems.

mollinary24 Jul 2018 12:10 p.m. PST

Dave, thank you so much for posting that link. Churchill's mischievous sense of humour sparkles through every word. A priceless piece of prose from a man possessed of supreme imagination!

goragrad24 Jul 2018 1:19 p.m. PST

Interesting what if.

Rather more optimistic than Turtledove.

Also glosses over Westward expansion by the South postwar other than the conquest of Mexico – lots of room for friction if the South pushed there in the flush of victory. Would Texas have accepted the defeat at Glorieta as final?

Winston Smith24 Jul 2018 1:31 p.m. PST

+1 Pan Marek

AussieAndy Supporting Member of TMP25 Jul 2018 4:07 a.m. PST

I remember reading this somewhere decades ago. Churchill wrote this sort of thing for the money. He might have been the grandson of a duke, but he wasn't independently wealthy and he had expensive habits. If you want to read something that he cared about, try his biography of Marlborough.

ScottWashburn Sponsoring Member of TMP25 Jul 2018 4:33 a.m. PST

Andy, quite true. Churchill, for much of his life, supported himself with his writing. He was terrible with finances (both personal and at the governmental level) and was often in financial straights and had to be bailed out by generous friends. Only his writing kept him afloat.

Personal logo McLaddie Supporting Member of TMP25 Jul 2018 3:22 p.m. PST

It illustrates why Churchill was the right man for the right job in 1939. And, why he was voted out immediately after the war was over.
His time, and prejudices, had passed.

Actually, Churchill could have and was advised by the Conservatives to not hold elections until after the Japanese were defeated. His party wanted six months to put together some programs to answer the Labor Party's post-war issues. Churchill's government had been on a war footing for a long time and changing course would require time.

Point being: Churchill chose to have elections immediately when he didn't have to, because "England was a democracy." I don't know if he had waited six months whether he would have been voted out anyway… Or that he just wanted not to be PM anymore. He was very hawkish towards Russia and some were afraid he would start a war with the Soviets, but it was his decision to hold the elections.

charared Supporting Member of TMP25 Jul 2018 9:27 p.m. PST

All true…

But Winston (C) WAS a Force of nature and an Historical Giant!!!

(His Mom like I was born and raised in Brooklyn, NY)

thumbs up

donlowry27 Jul 2018 8:22 a.m. PST

If the Confederates were going to win the war on the battlefield, it was more likely to happen at Chickamauga than at Gettysburg.

steve186527 Jul 2018 8:59 a.m. PST

A good book to read is "Clad in Iron" by Howard J. Fuller. Britain was very worried about US naval power. The Us had proven Iron Clad ships Britain did not. There was a great debate on how to deal with Us Naval Power. In fact the British ere afraid that both French and Us Iron clad ships could defeat the British navy.

Sorry - only verified members can post on the forums.