"Lipstick on a pig = The Host" Topic

I made a paid reservation at the Lancaster Host on 7 March 2018 for Historicon. Today (10 July) I was called by the Host and was told that due to renovations the hotel is over booked and I was being moved to the Wyndham Hotel about a mile away for the same convention price. I must say this upset me a lot!!! I am running two games at H'con on Friday and Sat, gone is the connivence of storing my game stuff in my hotel room. Ive attended almost every HMGS con since 1996. And have stayed the Host many times along with almost every other Hotel within walking distance. The Host has always had crappy customer service and has been a dump but I loved going to the cons and GMing games for the gamers. In 2016 I stopped attending Fall-In and Cold Wars because I no longer could stand even gaming inside the Host but continued attending H'con at Fredericksburg (I also enjoyed that venue and was upset when it ended this year) When word came out that the Host was sold and there were plans to refurbished…I made the comment that "no matter how much lipstick you put on a pig… it is still a pig!" My son missed that last two H'con's due to USAF commitments but is able to attend this year so I decided to hold my nose and attend the convention at the Host…thinking it will be the last year due to the move downtown in 2019. Then the dreaded phone call today! If my son was not going I would have told the Host to "stuff their reservation at the Wyndham!" So I will attend this H'con but today's action is just another nail in the HMGS coffin for me… I blame HMGS for this snafu as much as I blame the Host. They made the move back to this dump! So I will hold my nose and I might even "kiss" the pig on the lips if it is served Saturday night…but this may be my very last HMGS convention. Every year it is like re-inventing the wheel when it comes to putting on a War-game Convention?

Guess we'll just have to wait and see if the attendance numbers are significantly higher than the last Historicon at Fredericksburg before deciding it was a bad move.

But there will be 1,000's of old timers who refused go to fredericksburg at the Host this weekend.

SFC, we weren't notified of this issue until this afternoon. We have no input on who is affected by this. There are a number of ways I can see this being inconvenient for you and I'm sorry that this has happened to you and a few others. They tried to up-play the positives as a way to soften this (you guys get free breakfast now) but I understand this might offer you little satisfaction.

In reading your post I see that you're a gm running games. If you're interested, we have the locked room behind the GM Help Desk that I'd like to make available to you to store your stuff at the show. It's little consolation but it's the best I can do to help at this time. If you're interested in taking us up on the offer please contact myself or Brenda Zartman when you get to the show and we can fill you in.

Again, my apologies for the inconvenience,
Joby

Joby, thank you for the kind words… I may take up your offer. :)

SFC Retired

At the moment, I don't think this particular pig is wearing makeup.

Presumably this means even less of the renovation is finished now than they were expecting to be finished when they took the reservation in March. I might also note that I checked with the Host's front desk this week. You will all be shocked to know that the restaurant is going to be closed for the third convention in a row. They didn't even have the basic human hypocrisy to say they were sorry for the inconvenience or something unexpected had come up--just the same old worthless drivel about how surely it will be running by the next convention.

At this stage, a Host promise trades about even with a Continental dollar.

Doesn't mean they'll never be finished. Doesn't mean the place won't shine when they are. But right now, I'm looking at getting into a car Thursday morning, driving all day and then having to forage for food--quickly, with nothing on site--before I plunge into the darkness which is the flea market. It's getting a little old.

See you on the I-70 Robert.

I'll be the one in the econobox with a disgruntled expression and a bumper sticker reading "CTHULHU FOR PRESIDENT--DON'T SETTLE FOR THE LESSER EVIL."

I should add, I don't think any of this (except maybe the flea market location) is the BOD's or the convention staff's fault. They had to make a decision some time back and had no reason to anticipate the scale and duration of the Host's renovation problems. Nowhere on Planet Sane would you expect some of this to have gone on for convention after convention.

So BOD, staff, if you hear me grumbling about the physical location's difficulties Friday or Saturday, just ignore me: I'd have made the same call.

They moved me to the Wyndham today. I neglected to ask the rate. The om-line rate showing for the Wyndham is $100 USD vs $139 USD at the Host. I'm a little disturbed to hear I'll be paying a convention premium rate for a room a mile away.

I plan to get pissy about it when I check in, for what little good it will do me.

Duncan

Well it gets worse the parking lot in front of the dealer hall is blocked by heavy equipment how are they expecting dealers to unload?

Well, these lamentations have taken some of the sting out of my not being able to attend HISTORICON this year.

It's rather telling the last "Update" from HMGS was posted to the web site eleven months ago shortly after the announcement of the return of Historicon to the Host. Since that time two more shows have been held at the Host in which convention staff members were blindsided by various changes which they were forced to adapt the show program to on the fly.

Where is the "Liaison" BOD Member who was appointed to follow the progress of renovations at the Host, and keep the other BOD Members as well as the CDs informed of ongoing changes? Has that person been on vacation for the last eleven months? Is this a sign of complete dysfunction amongst the members of the BOD?

Despite numerous posts here on TMP over the last year requesting updated information very little information has been forthcoming except the occasional very short answers from one of the CDs. Most of which provide very little in definitive information. As such it would seem HMGS is more concerned about running folks off from attending the shows, then they're concerned about offering an entertaining and quality program.

Maybe, just maybe at the Membership meeting this weekend the BOD Members will finally come clean, and admit they really made a big mistake keeping the shows at the Host! I won't be holding my breath on that one though! It's time the members give them the earful the BOD Members richly deserve though!

@VAGamer63

You know, let's come off our high horse and look at facts.

Where was the BoD liaison when FB was falling on it's face? Pure and simple. It was experiencing declining numbers and rising costs.

As such it would seem HMGS is more concerned about running folks off from attending the shows, then they're concerned about offering an entertaining and quality program.

You're joking, right? FB was running people off. People were not showing up.

Maybe, just maybe at the Membership meeting this weekend the BOD Members will finally come clean, and admit they really made a big mistake keeping the shows at the Host! I won't be holding my breath on that one though! It's time the members give them the earful the BOD Members richly deserve though!

Really? Let's look at the elected officials. Of all the people that ran, the person that wanted to keep H'Con at FB – Dudley – got the lowest amount of votes. That should tell you something.

Listen – what is happening at the Host is very unfortunate. But blame it on the BoD? I don't think that's fair. I'm sure it'll get straightened out one way or another.

BTW – Weren't you the one who said he's never coming to another HMGS convention? So why comment?

They could have left it in Fredericksburg… Hell, I'd trade for one of the other ones to move to Fredericksburg. I only need to go to one/year…

This was definitely going to be my last HCon once news of the move to downtown and who knows where after that.

I think I might just look into cancelling my room at the Country Inn next door. If I can get a refund, I may just say "good riddance".

HCon's going to be a mess…

Edit: Nope too late. At least I'll have a room and breakfast. We'll see what else happens after that… :)

"But there will be 1,000's of old timers who refused go to Fredericksburg at the Host this weekend." 1,000's? Ya think? I HOPE that is said in jest. SFC Retired, I gotta agree with your assumptions & assessments of HMGS & the Con's in general. But of course, they will say, "Y'all are both from Virginia". Well I made every H-Con since 1990, minus the 2 in Valley Forge, until this one. We, all 5 or 6 of us, are done. All y'all have fun stormin' the castle. We sure wish one of these 3 were just a bit more evenly spread out damn it. But we are just a bunch of hics whose opinions stink as much as the Host's rooms.

It was my comment and it was in jest. I'am from Denver, So Either place is the same drive time for me. I just wish we could have a really National Historical Miniature convention someday. I am sorry that your done and I hope you have a fun weekend. I am going uses the candy gram trick to make into the castle.

They could have left it in Fredericksburg

Seriously??

But we are just a bunch of hics whose opinions stink as much as the Host's rooms.

Who said anything about opinion?

Did you see the numbers of the convention centers? FB was the highest priced and drew the least amount of people.

Even if we have the same number of people we're paying less – which makes the con more profitable.

Keeping it in FB as long as they did was a bad business decision.

But we now have a BoD that is willing to stand up and correct the errors of the past. I'm standing behind them.

TheKing30 – Yes, why wouldn't I be?

Haven't been to an H'con in years, as much from the attitude of the HMGS staff (both elected and volunteer) as by the venue. I don't stay overnight so venue doesn't matter so much to me. But… I actually haven't been to ANY HMGS cons in years. Much prefer some of the smaller, friendlier cons where the goal is to put on good games and have fun rather than make as much money as you can get for your war chest and screw the clientele. If they never get any more money from me, that's ok with me.

A question for the future, is HC 2019 going to be at The Host or is it possibly moving somewhere else? I haven't been to a HC but the complaints about the Host, both current and past, make me wonder why it would be held there again?

King30,

I'm not on any kind of horse, so why don't you get off yours!! Or are you stuck on the saddle horn?

Please tell us all unknowing and unclean just how many of the 6 shows in FB lost money?

That's right! Not a single one!

And for your info, the Host is now more expensive then it has ever been, so HMGS is paying more and getting less! Once renovations are completed the price is going up substantially, (as I pointed out a couple of years ago!) which is why Historicon has been moved to the downtown area of Lancaster. It's also why the BOD is still looking into moving the other two shows by the end of this year!

As far as the BOD correcting the errors of the past, they just continue to repeat them, which is why a good number of people like myself have stopped attending any of the shows! So while you're standing behind them take note of how fast that line becomes shorter and shorter!! What will you have to crow about then?

Those who made the choice not to travel to FB for whatever reason have no one to blame but themselves! Yet they don't hesitate to deride or dismiss everyone who has the same reasons and/or opinions about Lancaster! That's pretty two-faced where I come from!

The BOD does deserve a very large part of the blame as they knew over a year ago the Host was going to be a disaster under it's renovation schedule, but they made the choice to forge ahead anyway! All the while maintaining the "Cone of Silence" so as not to scare people away! So yes it does rest squarely on their shoulders, and if the membership really cared about the HMGS brand they would demand some resignations at the membership meeting!!

SFCretired,

There will be no Hall Pig, or much of anything else as I've been told! In fact the food selection will be as they say, "the pickings will be pretty slim!" So bring some subsidence with you if you care to have any means of making it through the weekend!

Actually, I think the fact that the Host took action to resolve the problem and find other accommodations for those affected IS good customer service.

I don't understand the pompous, self-richeous, holier-than-thou outrage over this issue. Sometimes schedules slip. Stuff happens. The Host is at least trying to make good by coordinating rooms for folks and letting them know in advance rather than at check in.

I don't see that any "blame" needs to be placed on anyone. No plan survives contact with the enemy. From my foxhole, a problem occurred, and those involved are taking prudent steps to address it. That sounds like credit, not blame.

I agree with Duncan that if you are moved to a lower priced hotel you should pay a lower price, but we don't need any more people being pissy around the conventions. There is plenty of that on TMP already. I am going to play games and have a good time. All this whining and complaining about the conventions is just background noise.

For years people complained that the Host was falling into disrepair. Now the new owners are trying to fix things, and people are complaining about that too. It took many years for the Host to get to the poor level it was a couple of years ago. It is not going to get better over night. Like any business, the Host has to manage cash flow. In my opinion, it IS getting better. I was in one of the renovated rooms at Cold Wars and posted pictures. The renovated rooms are very nice.

Many people on TMP have become haters, not gamers.

I am no apologist for the BoD. I think they have completely lost focus of the purpose of HMGS, which by charter has a wider mission than running three conventions a year. HMGS East has either opposed or through its passive aggressive behavior hampered everything our club has tried to do to grow the hobby over the past 20 years. Having said that, a) I think the Host is a good venue for wargaming at the price point we are all willing to pay and b) the BoD is going to try the Lancaster Convention Center for next year to see if it is a viable alternative to the Host. I'm sure people will complain about that too, but it does show that the BoD is looking for viable alternatives. HMGS is offering bus tours to the Lancaster Convention Center during Historicon, so people can take a look and prepare their vitriolic screes against it on TMP.

I think people just enjoy being miserable and enjoy the anonymity of the Internet to complain, complain, complain. Get a life! I am sick to death of all the TMP haters.

And I am sick and tired of people in the South trying to drag Historicon down there. If the South could support a Historicon-sized convention, it would have done so. Historicon was the biggest convention when Bob Giglio was running it not due to some law of nature, but because it was well run and it was located in the epicenter of a large population of gamers. You southerners should grow Nashon, Siege, or one of your other conventions if you think you can do so. But don't try to move a successful convention away from what made it successful just because you envy the size and scope of what Historicon WAS. Grow your own convention if you think you have the population of gamers and game masters to do so.

If you want a big convention closer to home, grow one. If you don't like what the BoD is doing, run for election. If you don't like the Host, don't go. But don't try to make me feel like your are taking some moral high ground and that I should lament the fact that you aren't coming any more or that I should feel somehow inferior or unwashed because I don't hate the Host. I just want to play games and meet gaming buddies I only see a couple times a year. It is the PEOPLE I game with that make the convention worthwhile, not the venue. If you don't want to come, by all means stay home. Good riddance. Fewer haters in my life will be welcome. But please spare us all the constant stream of rants about the Host, the Fredericksburg Convention Center, the Gettysburg Convention Center, life, the universe, and everything. If you think you can do so much better, get on the BoD or volunteer to run a convention. It's a lot harder than you think. Put up or shut up.

Buck

While having to relocate is rather distressing, I find the doomsayers' predictions about the nadir Historicon will reach must be the product of time travel or clairvoyance.
The con hasn't even started. Save the critique of the show for Sunday afternoon, m'kay?

I for one, along w/ the rest of my crew, will be one of the many "oldtimers" who haven't been going to FB, but will be coming this weekend. Then again, we love the Host. We love the free parking (whether you stay there or not), the lack of restrictions (or lack of enforcement) of alcohol rules, the ease of transport in and out of the Distelfink…and we love only living 45 minutes away.

Then again, we're not hard to please. The Host is the best con location for my money…and thats no joke.

@VAGamer63..

You know, I was going to try and explain things to you. Things like… If you start with 3500 people and end with 2500 people – you're losing business. I guess it's all those big zeros that confuse you.

I was going to show the exact numbers with the convention centers. How the FCC is charging more than any other center.

But I realized something. I'm packing for Historicon. I'll be leaving in a few hours. I'll be seeing friends, rolling dice and enjoying good food with other gamers. I'll be enjoying the best four days in Historical gaming.

The Host – yea, there are some issues. Nothing earth shattering.

SFC definitely got a raw deal. @SFC – if you need a ride or help loading\ unloading – PM me on TMP. I can send you my cell phone. I'll gladly help lighten your load.

So what you gonna do, VAGamer63? Nothing? Cry on TMP?

Have fun!

@SFC – I just realized you can't PM me on TMP. My email address is THE_KING_30@y@hoo.com (just replace the second "@" with an "a"). If you need a ride or help, let me know. I'll help you if I can.

I'll be attending my first Historicon since 2011, and am looking forward to it this year! We made Fall In last November, and didn't find the Host nearly as bad as expected. I'm just there to play games, and am confident I'll have a blast.

I was one of the first to arrive last night around 7.

My room at the host is totally redone and quite nice. The hallway is redone.

The entrance to the lobby is a visual construction mess. One door at the moment up a ramp. Will this hamper anyone? No.

The stairs from the parking lot have been stripped of carpet and have not been recarpeted yet. Will this hamper anyone? No.

The parking lot around the hotel edges is the same construction mess as at CW. Will this hamper anyone? No. You will just park in the grass lots.

The bar. No change. No taps. Why they wouldn't buy a kegerator tap to get their beer cost down males no sense, so bottles it will be. I saw a delivery yesterday. I also warned them to get alot more.
Will this hamper anyone? No. Unless they run out.

Inside pool is done. Outside is a warzone.
Will this hamper anyone? No.

The gaming areas look fine.

Dealer hall. Fine for attendees.
Load in and out for vendors will be an issue. Insurmountable, no. Just a pain in the ass due to the old dealer lot being ripped up and the new one not built yet.

Looking forward to a good show and seeing lots of friends and customers.

Thanks for the update, Lon. See you in a couple of days.

Thank you vagamer63. I am so happy for the 1,000's of old timers who wouldn't travel South. Y'all have fun. And Wackmole9, thanks for the clarification. Hope the Candy Gram thing works for ya! And Mr. Sardu, I'm so glad you could "grow" all 3 con's so close to you.

I didn't grow them, but the fact is they were grown over time, not poached.

Looks like Fall-In 2019 will be in Valley Forge, according to the future conventions page on the website.

I like the Host just fine, but I liked Valley Forge better. I don't know what that venue is like after they added the casino.

Just got the Historicon 2018 Update email from HMGS. A solid list of inconveniences, but outside of the room cancellations, nothing that would constitute a deal-breaker (I'm a day-tripper this time anyway).

No matter what, games will still go on, and the sun will still rise (near a spot on the horizon where I'll be parking my car.)

The lack of food stations downstairs might upset my 9-year old daughter, but we'll stock up on supplies the night before. More money to spend at the dealers and wally's basement.

Can't say what attendance will be. I can tell you I'm coming up for a day, as is my friend Tom. As is my friend Dennis and his two sons. That's five people who haven't gone to an Hcon in years.

Yep, the Host is a mess. Not surprising.

I have yet to drive by the exit on I-95 for Occoquan where traffic wasn't at a stand-still – pick you day of the week, pick your time. I understand not all have that issue.

Safe trip to everyone attending.

Thank you Buck. Leaving Friday morning and should be there by noon. Looking forward to it.

Now, we're poachers… geeze, sad…

This is the HMGS email update I got today for those who haven't seen it.

Welcome Attendees:

We're sorry for the lateness of this email. We had a number of things to address and wanted to be able to get you the most accurate information we could.

 Some things about the show:

1. Parking: There will be attendants directing parking, please cooperate with them. Handicapped spots are in the front of the building to the right.

2. Registration: Registration for Historicon is now located in the Lampeter room inside the new EAST entrance. (The same location it was at Cold Wars 2018)

3. Gaming: During the meeting with the Host on we were made aware that the Host Rooms 1&2 are unavailable for use. Most of the games in there were relocated to tables open due to cancellations. The new locations are printed on the event ticket you'll get at check-in. The changes will also be posted at the GM Help Desk (still located in the Ballroom Foyer). A few of the games will be moved to some useable rooms in the 500 block (up the stairs in the back of the Hotel Lobby). Those games will still have the old location on the event ticket (HO1 1, HO1 2, etc.) Signs will be posted in the hotel.

4. Food: The downstairs food stations were removed to make room for gaming tables. The upstairs food station will still be there. Legends is closed. There will be additional food available in the Window's Café. (Where the Breakfast Buffet is) with additional food choices. For those staying at the Host, the Lancaster Brewing Company Taproom & Grill located across the street and a little east of the Host is offering 10% off of food (not alcohol) just show them your room key.

5. Special Guests: We're sorry to report that James Dunnigan will not be attending. We're happy to report that the rest of the SPI guys will still be in attendance. The Perry Twins seminar for Saturday afternoon has been moved to Saturday morning at 10 am. 

6.  If you need assistance: An information desk will be manned for some of the show. It's at the top of the stairs leading from Lampeter to the old entrance. Senior staff for the show will be wearing bright blue shirts, volunteers will be in bright orange shirts when on duty. Feel free to approach anyone wearing their "colors" during the show for assistance.

7. Wally's Basement: Wally's will again be in the showroom. The lighting has been approved since Cold Wars. Access will still be using the stairs or freight elevator (located through Wheatland and just to the right. We expect the elevator to be manned during load in. If you need to use the freight elevator during Wally's and it is not manned by hotel staff, go to the front desk for assistance. Due to the limited access, we've arranged for some secure storage upstairs for between sessions. You can contact the Wally's Manager if you wish to use some of the space. The Showroom will NOT be secure after Wally's closes. The stage will be in use for gaming at times.

8. Wingate by Wyndham: For those relocated to the Wyndham by the Host, please check in with Brenda Zartman sometime during the show to let her know you were affected by the move. We apologize to those inconvenienced by this. Enjoy the free breakfast. 

That's what we have for now. Thanks everyone. Stay safe in your travels and we'll see you at the show.

Historicon 2018 Staff

vaguer 63 said:
"Maybe, just maybe at the Membership meeting this weekend the BOD Members will finally come clean, and admit they really made a big mistake keeping the shows at the Host! I won't be holding my breath on that one though! It's time the members give them the earful the BOD Members richly deserve though!

Where is the "Liaison" BOD Member who was appointed to follow the progress of renovations at the Host, and keep the other BOD Members as well as the CDs informed of ongoing changes? Has that person been on vacation for the last eleven months? Is this a sign of complete dysfunction amongst the members of the BOD?"

The BOD has been very frank and open regarding the location of future conventions. This was a "wait and see year" until everything settles out.

Perhaps if you had attended the members meetings or any one of the HMGS BOD information sessions you would be more informed.

Oh thats right… you are no longer attending HMGS conventions… you will just be pining from home.

…..
2019 will offer new beginnings. Hang in there everyone.

TRU

My friend and I found ourselves moved as well. After much discussion this morning we decided to make it a Saturday only trip. The reason we booked the Host is so we can stay onsite and enjoy meeting up with other club members. All good since I am saving money on my room I may have more to spend in the Vendors hall!

I'll say this – I needed a room for tonight. My reservation started tomorrow.
Four of the big hotels are sold out for tonight. I think this convention is going to be packed!

I think all six of the games I am running are sold out in pre registration. Perhaps we will see a bumper crop of gamers this year. I hope to see a good crop of youngsters.

That's pretty two-faced where I come from!

vagamer63, how about emphatically stating that you would never go to another HMGS convention again because of the move from the FCC? And then stirring the pot with every posting you make.

When this is pointed out to you……the sound of crickets. Like what happened above, with TheKing30's response.

So bring some subsidence with you if you care to have any means of making it through the weekend!

Ya, because there is absolutely no food to be found anywhere in Lancaster. Did you only eat within the premises at the FCC?

I have enjoyed every Historicon since 1993, including the ones in FB, but those kept getting smaller and smaller. And of course call the police on folks who had coolers was less then friendly.

Me too dapeters. I too seem to enjoy every Con I go to. What is wrong with us?

Just got there. The vendor area is fine. Well prepared, helpful staff, AC working. No complaints. Our room has been renovated and is nice. There IS a lot of construction going on and a lot of parking spaces are unavailable, but I think people's fears about the Host are overblown.

I think those of us that enjoy the conventions are the odd ones. I am looking forward to another convention at The Host. I have never stayed there and while parking can be a mess, have always enjoyed it.

WooHoo! "The Host Sucks" is off to a rip-roaring start this year!