Help support TMP


"Magach 6 /M60A1 for the Yom Kippur War 1973" Topic


19 Posts

All members in good standing are free to post here. Opinions expressed here are solely those of the posters, and have not been cleared with nor are they endorsed by The Miniatures Page.

For more information, see the TMP FAQ.


Back to the Getting Started with Moderns Message Board

Back to the Cold War (1946-1989) Message Board

Back to the Flames of War Message Board

Back to the Modern Discussion (1946 to 2007) Message Board



989 hits since 9 Jul 2018
©1994-2018 Bill Armintrout
Comments or corrections?

mysteron Supporting Member of TMP09 Jul 2018 1:49 a.m. PST

I have just bought my First Battlefront Israeli M60s in 15mm for Fate of a Nation. The sprues do raise some questions for you experts on Israeli equipment.

Consulting my new Osprey book Sagger Anti Tank Missile V M60 Main Battle tank by Chris McNab. The M60s featured appear to be very much different than those modelled by Battlefront for their Fate of a Nation Book.

The tank the Osprey features is the Magach 6A of which I have just built one from the parts on the Battlefront Sprue.

This is a tank from the 600th Reserve Armoured Brigade which features a Commanders Weapon Station.

My first question surrounds the Commanders Weapon Station . For the Yom Kippur War is this the most common version as opposed to the version fitted with the Urdan Cupola ?

The Battlefront model features smoke dischargers . Is this correct ? I have been unable to find any pictures of Magach 6s with smoke launchers on the web.

I have ended carving mine off and placing spare track links over the top.

I just want to make sure that I am on the right track here before building any more.

Thanks guys

mysteron Supporting Member of TMP09 Jul 2018 3:59 a.m. PST

A further Question. Should the colour of these tanks be a sort of Olive type colour as in the Osprey book ? . I presume because they were sent into service from US stocks ?

Col Piron09 Jul 2018 6:58 a.m. PST

Painting Guide for Fate of a Nation .

link

mysteron Supporting Member of TMP09 Jul 2018 7:17 a.m. PST

Thanks but that's mainly for the 67 war. The colours change slightly for 1973 but I am sure the Magach 6s that took part were not in standard ( if there was a standard) IDF colours but those more commonly seen on US tanks ie an Olive type colour with sand perhaps mixed in etc.

That's why I just need some help in getting that confirmed before I start painting. And also the right cupola.

IDF tanks seem to be tricky beasts as there appears to be many arguments that they should be in this colour or that colour.

ScottS09 Jul 2018 8:16 a.m. PST

Some Israeli M-60s retained the US cupola:

I have no idea what sort of proportion received the Urdan kit, but the US cupola is okay.

I don't think they had smoke grenade launchers in 1973. US tanks got them with the RISE/PASSIVE upgrade, which was done in 1977.


Israeli tanks were painted "Sinai Grey," not US green. The color has changed over time, so 1956 tanks won't be the same color as those of 1982, even if both are "Sinai Grey." The color is hard to match, it can look like a sand tan or a grey green depending on the photo.

Model paint companies make paint to match, AK makes a nice 1973 "Sand Grey" intended to replicate Sinai Grey:

ScottS09 Jul 2018 8:20 a.m. PST

. The colours change slightly for 1973 but I am sure the Magach 6s that took part were not in standard ( if there was a standard) IDF colours but those more commonly seen on US tanks ie an Olive type colour with sand perhaps mixed in etc.

I'm pretty sure they weren't US Olive Drab:

sgt Dutch09 Jul 2018 8:26 a.m. PST

M60 73 war. No smoke dischargers. Most had the 50 cal removed from the commanders turret. Very hard to find good pictures of IDF M60 during this time period.

sgt Dutch09 Jul 2018 8:32 a.m. PST

Mission Models make both idf color. I found them very easy to paint with.
Both can be found here. link


ScottS09 Jul 2018 8:42 a.m. PST

Also, for comparison:

mysteron Supporting Member of TMP10 Jul 2018 1:36 a.m. PST

Many thanks for the responses so far. The pictures have given me confidence that I am on the right track as regards the building of the tanks. I do prefer having more than one source before committing myself. These are totally different to how the Battlefront Magach 6s are presented in their book.

Painting wise this is still a bit of a mystery . When using the search engine I have dug up an Old TMP thread which has made the same observations as I have about the M60s being in a more Olive colour ie greeny yellow . This is a different colour of course than the Olive Drab as used by the US forces of the period.

I will probably "play safe" and go along with the paint recommendations kindly given from you guys. As another commentator suggested, no 2 tanks should look the same as the paint was supplied as a paste and needed thinning before spraying and also the harsh environment needs to be considered. All in all this should give me the license to vary the shades .

ScoutJock10 Jul 2018 9:04 a.m. PST

The Israelis received their M60s from the US in 1971 so they would have had time to paint them sand grey. The M60s sent during and after the 73 war did not see action so you wouldn't have seen any od green M60s at the front.

mysteron Supporting Member of TMP10 Jul 2018 6:09 p.m. PST

Yes the first M60A1s were delivered in 1971. However further deliveries of M60A1s and older M60s from redundant US stocks as the war unfolded. That is stated in the Osprey book Sagger V M60 .I have just ordered a second book on Israeli armour and hoping to be able to cross reference that point.

ScoutJock11 Jul 2018 7:37 a.m. PST

The US delivered exactly 4 tanks to Israel during the war. They were flown in on C5s as part of operation Nickel Grass, primarily to prove it could be done and also to bolster Israel's morale. An additional 25 were flown in following the implementation of the cease fire.

Another 240 or so were delivered by sealift beginning in late November to help replace Israeli losses.

mysteron Supporting Member of TMP11 Jul 2018 7:48 a.m. PST

Thanks for that info . That will help me now decide as to the colour I will be going for. Probably the colour you recommended in you first post.

Many thanks for you input and support in helping me with my research

ScoutJock11 Jul 2018 9:31 a.m. PST

Smoke dischargers were a post 73 war addition. The effectiveness of the Saggers and RPGs were a surprise to both the Israelis and their western allies. The addition of smoke dischargers were a reaction to that threat.

mysteron Supporting Member of TMP11 Jul 2018 4:09 p.m. PST

I have got you and Scott's mixed up. Apologies for that but you have both been very helpful .Thanks for that and thanks to the other guys for their inputs as well.

mysteron Supporting Member of TMP22 Aug 2018 4:55 a.m. PST

Another question and its more to do about the painting side of things .

I have nailed the colours of 87th Armoured Recon firmly to my mast.

When their 24 Magach6As got delivered would these have been initially in US Olive Drab and then repainted before entering service?

What I am looking at here is if the vehicle got scratched or bumped whilst in service would it reveal the US Olive Drab underneath? Ie a possible chipping colour for the tank ?

Thanks

Lion in the Stars22 Aug 2018 2:44 p.m. PST

For a whole-vehicle repaint? I'd expect them to be sandblasted down to bare metal and repainted.

mysteron Supporting Member of TMP23 Aug 2018 5:25 a.m. PST

Cheers . I will go along with that and perhaps use bare metal as my chipping colour . Effect wise it will probably look pretty similar on a 15mm vehicle.

Sorry - only verified members can post on the forums.