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"Stuka Zu Fuss, are they usefull" Topic


17 Posts

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1,043 hits since 7 Jul 2018
©1994-2018 Bill Armintrout
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rhacelt07 Jul 2018 3:33 p.m. PST

This fall my gaming group plans on doing a mini campaign. It will be loosely set around the Market Garden campaign. We will have several different platoons involved on each side. Half will come from the Market Garden campaign Book and half from the Tanks book. One of the German platoons I am working on is a engineer platoon that I am thinking of adding a Stuka Zu Fuss to. I have read and reread the rules for multiple rockets and have even tried some attempts to use it in a solo game. I have yet to have it actually hit anything in several attempts. I was just hoping some one out there could give me there take on it. It really looks impressive on the game board but is it worth its points or do I get it just for the scare tactics? We will be using the 2nd edition Bolt Action rules.

Ed Mohrmann Supporting Member of TMP07 Jul 2018 5:43 p.m. PST

Why not just buy a Nebelwerfer and tow it with a
normal 'track ?

rhacelt07 Jul 2018 6:22 p.m. PST

Ed I am making a pioneer platoon and they were the ones who used the Stuka Zu Fuss. I believe the Nebelwerfer uses the same rules as the Zu Fuss. I have never tried using that either. Can some one who has used a Nebelwerfer let me know what they thought about it. A Zu Fuss by itself is also cheaper then buying a Nebelwerfer and a halftrack.

Personal logo miniMo Supporting Member of TMP07 Jul 2018 8:26 p.m. PST

I haven't seen them used in a game, but if I was building a historical unit that had them, I would certainly do a model for the sheer awe and glory value!

Twilight Samurai Supporting Member of TMP07 Jul 2018 8:58 p.m. PST

Which is, of course, the very BEST reason to do anything!

:)

Lion in the Stars07 Jul 2018 11:01 p.m. PST

My armored Panzer-Pionier platoon has one Stuka zu Fuss. I didn't field it often. I have terrible luck getting the beast ranged in.

You're probably better off having two in the platoon (remember, you get 7 'tracks in the pionier platoon).

rhacelt08 Jul 2018 5:29 a.m. PST

It does look imposing. I also plan to use it to carry my command squad since it still can carry troops. I would think some more people would have tried using them.

Personal logo Extra Crispy Sponsoring Member of TMP08 Jul 2018 8:30 a.m. PST

Seems like a simple math problem.

Chance to hit * possible hits * damage = expected hits.

Compare that to a regular mortar or Nebelwerfer.

Perhpas it's a high risk / high reward kind of thing. A beast to range in but if it lands, it splats everything?

Starfury Rider08 Jul 2018 9:33 a.m. PST

They get a mention on the KStN (TO&E) for the Panzer Bdes of summer 1944. There they were on the strength of the 12-cm Mortar Pls of the PzGren Bn, not with the Pz Pio Coy. Each Pl had a single set on an SdKfz 251 with its ammunition detachment, so with two 12-cm Pls just two frame launchers for the Bde.

They crop up on a couple of late war (Nov44) tables, again for mortar Pls with halftracks. I've not seen a specific reference to them in the various Pz Pio Coy KStN, possibly they were on the KAN (equipment table) which seem pretty much extinct for Panzer units.

Gary

deephorse08 Jul 2018 2:41 p.m. PST

There's no shortage of photos of these vehicles prior to summer 1944, so what formations were they part of then? Anyone know?

rhacelt08 Jul 2018 4:56 p.m. PST

From what I have seen they were also used by the pioneer co's of the PZGren Battalions. I am afraid I do not have a solid source it was just one of those things I remember reading. Not being as young as I once was I may be all wrong. Not saying it is a credible source by any means but in Flames of War they are in the pioneer units only.

Personal logo SBminisguy Supporting Member of TMP10 Jul 2018 9:28 a.m. PST

Well, minimum range for rockets they carried was 400m, so mostly it should just be a vehicle that looks cool…

deephorse12 Jul 2018 6:23 a.m. PST

After a bit of reading and Googling I've found that an instruction dated January 1941 put 6 of these vehicles in the 3rd company of the armoured engineer battalions.

10SS Panzer also had some in the 5th company of their recce battalion in 1944. Some wurfrahmen frames are said to have been mounted on the 251/9s of that unit. That would be a handy wargaming formation.

Starfury Rider12 Jul 2018 11:25 a.m. PST

That would make sense. In the earlier war Pz Pio Bn there was only a single Platoon of one Pio Coy equipped with halftracks. The earliest KStN I've got though is only from Apr43 and gives the armd Pio Pl six 251/7, enough for one per set. Oddly enough there weren't that many SdKfz251s in a 1941-42 Pz Div to hang them on.

The 1944 PzBde info shows ammunition as 12 rounds 28-cm (HE) and 6 rounds 32-cm (incendiary?) per frame.

It did occur to me they might suit a mortar unit better than an engineer as the former was set up for indirect fire.

Gary

deephorse12 Jul 2018 2:02 p.m. PST

In "Schutzenpanzer" by Culver & Feist they write that this weapon was used in the direct fire support role. Considering that the maximum range of the rockets was 1,900 to 2,200 meters (depending upon their size) this makes sense to me. They were the divisions only direct heavy fire support until the introduction of the 251/9 etc. Why they were in the Pioneer battalion is not explained.

In "Panzer Divisions: the Eastern Front 1941-43" Battistelli writes that the third Panzer Pioneer company was reorganised in January 1941. The third platoon of this company had the six 251s with wurfrahmen.

Personal logo miniMo Supporting Member of TMP12 Jul 2018 5:59 p.m. PST

Since German Pioneers are assault troops, it makes sense that they get the best bunker-busting halftrack!

Richard Baber13 Jul 2018 5:31 a.m. PST

I`m not sure how this adds to the conversation but 69th Panzergrenadier Regiment of 10th Panzer Div when it shipped to tunisia in December 1943 had only had one armd battalion with halftracks (2nd battalion). It mounted 28cm rockets onto the companies mortar Sdkfz251/2 vehicles – 2 per company so 6 in the battalion.

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