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"Panzer IV/70(A) 'Zwischenlösung' im Westen und Osten" Topic


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619 hits since 28 Jun 2018
©1994-2018 Bill Armintrout
Comments or corrections?

Tango0128 Jun 2018 11:47 a.m. PST

"This beast was rarely photographed by Western Front standards, even rarer in western Germany.

From these aerial photos it becomes apparent this particular behemoth was either driven, towed or shunted from the road to the left of this beautiful building into the garden.

According to Uli's info linked below, the US Army's 745th Tank Battalion claimed one Pz.Kpfw. IV and one SP knocked out in Bennerschied on 20-21 March 1945. At the time the 745th was attached to the 1st Infantry División…."

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Main page
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Amicalement
Armand

Personal logo Silurian Supporting Member of TMP28 Jun 2018 12:07 p.m. PST

Great photo and fascinating article. The depth of research and detail is amazing.

I want that beautiful building on my table-top too!

Tango0129 Jun 2018 12:26 p.m. PST

Glad you like it my friend!. (smile)

Amicalement
Armand

Mark 129 Jun 2018 12:58 p.m. PST

This thread raises, for me, the question of designations of this vehicle, and it's close cousins.

My understanding is:

Pz IV/70 (A) is the tall jagdpanzer based on the Pz IV chassis. Why it was called Panzer IV/70 instead of JagdPanzer IV/70 has never been clear to me. This tall version was built by Alkett -- hence the (A). This is the model that is usually called the Zwischenlösung -- which translates roughly as "interim version". I don't think that term was ever officially associated with the vehicle, but is just some label folks now seem to apply.

Pz IV/70 (V) is the shorter jagdpanzer based on the Pz IV chassis. By shorter I mean the vehicle was not as tall. In particular the superstructure was taller on the interim version built by Alkett. This version, the shorter version, was built by Vomag -- hence the (V).

JdPz IV is the term usually used for the same Vomag-built jagdpanzer, when it mounts the shorter 75mm L48 gun. Sometimes also called PzJgr IV.

Do I have this right? I see a lot of confusion among miniatures manufacturers as to what to call which version, and I don't really know a) IF my naming above is correct, nor b) WHY they were named these ways.

-Mark
(aka: Mk 1)

Legion 429 Jun 2018 2:12 p.m. PST

Neat "Before & After" pics ! evil grin

deephorse29 Jun 2018 2:48 p.m. PST

@Mark

I cannot do better than suggest that you get hold of Nuts & Bolts issues 37 and 38. Within you will find all the answers to the issue of the naming of these vehicles. The L48 version had at least 18 different names in official documents, whilst the L70(V) had 13 and the L70(A) only 11. This was all settled on the 29 October 1944 when the OKH ordered that they be called Jagdpanzer IV.

The Panzer IV/70 (A) is so called because it was not derived from the Jagdpanzer IV, but rather from the direct mounting of the L70 gun onto a Panzer IV chassis. Seems like splitting hairs, I know, but that's the reason. Buy the books and learn more!

Tango0130 Jun 2018 11:41 a.m. PST

Glad you like it too my good friend!. (smile)

Amicalement
Armand

Mark 102 Jul 2018 12:33 p.m. PST

@deephorse

Thanks for filling in the blanks.

> Buy the books and learn more!

"Learn more" is always motivating to me. But I might add, that "Post a question on the TMP board and learn more!" seems to work admirably, as well.

-Mark
(aka: Mk 1)

deephorse02 Jul 2018 1:22 p.m. PST

Ah, but you get a lot more from the books than I could ever give you here Mark!

4th Cuirassier03 Jul 2018 6:06 a.m. PST

There was a Monogram 1/32 kit of this vehicle which had optional L/48 and L/70 guns. Monogram called this a Panzerjager IV – was that label correct?

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deephorse03 Jul 2018 11:11 a.m. PST

It could have been, for a while. See my post above. I'm away from my books for a couple of days so can't look to see if the L70 (V] version was ever called just Panzerjager IV.

Lee49403 Jul 2018 3:01 p.m. PST

And how many of either variant actually saw combat on the Western Front? 10? Cheers

mkenny03 Jul 2018 3:11 p.m. PST

From September 1944 losses for PzIV L70 & JgdPz IV L have their own seperate columns in listings of vehicle losses.

Martin Rapier04 Jul 2018 5:55 a.m. PST

Yes, lots of Jagdpanzer IVs fought in the West. Partly as many of the panzer div panzerjaeger battallions were re-equipping with them when Normandy happened, so they weren't caught up in the Normandy catastrophe.

IInd SS PanzerKorps had more Jagdpanzer IVs than anything else during Market Garden (until the 506th Tiger Bn showed up).

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