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"Figure conversion" Topic

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Fredloan15 Jun 2018 2:54 p.m. PST

I am looking to do a regiment of Hesse-Darmstad Chevau-legers. I think if I use Bavarian cavalry and maybe trim off the front of the crest it will get me the close to the actual look. The Wurttemberger cavalry helmet seems to have a shorter look to it vs the Bavarian Raupenhelm. Any suggestions?

Footslogger16 Jun 2018 8:47 a.m. PST

I'm gathering the spare parts to do a couple of Chevau-legers myself.

I think I'll scratch-build the helmets. They do look smaller than the Bavarian style.

Thank God, I do 1 stand = 1 brigade, so I only need two of them.

I'll also be doing a couple of Baden dragoons, and they WILL be getting Raupenhelms.

It's a pity, but Hesse-Darmstadt models are conspicuous by their absence.

Personal logo deadhead Supporting Member of TMP17 Jun 2018 2:05 a.m. PST

I speak from profound ignorance (but that never stops me).

The helmet seems just as tall, I think the issue with those "German" states' helmets is whether there is a crest below the fur comb or the comb is directly onto the helmet.

I am sure you will have seen this from Haythornthwaite's Uniforms of the Retreat from Moscow. A trumpeter, hence the unlaced button holes. It does show the helmet particularly well. Knotel shows this with the frontal crest but also a lower version, in another illustration. Did it evolve?


Looks awfully like Perrys' Bavarians to me;


Personal logo deadhead Supporting Member of TMP17 Jun 2018 2:42 a.m. PST

The more I research them, the more I can see why you want to do them. Fine looking unit, with an impressive role in the retreat.

Everyone shows the tall helmet. I think the lower looking one is from Job, not Knotel and that may just be artistic variation;




Footslogger17 Jun 2018 3:37 a.m. PST

I was working mainly from the last illustration you've given, Deadhead, but now I have, oooh, THREE different shapes to choose from for the helmet front, choice of breeches and boots or overalls, and a choice of patterns for the saddlecloth motifs. Am I spoilt, or what?

I won't do rolled cloaks, I want to be able to see the tunic properly.

I'm just finishing painting a quartet of Bavarians right now.

Brechtel19817 Jun 2018 4:25 a.m. PST

I speak from profound ignorance (but that never stops me).

So do the rest of us so don't feel alone. ;-)

Seriously, though, all any of us (and that includes historians, authors, -not necessarily the same thing- collectors, painters, et al), have done is scratch the surface of the period.

von Winterfeldt17 Jun 2018 7:11 a.m. PST

the problem none of them is contemporary, it is only the interpretation of modern artists using God knows what sources.
I will have a look in my files – in case I find a suitable picture I will supply it.

von Winterfeldt17 Jun 2018 7:38 a.m. PST


here a link of a good article – in French with illustrations


and here two photos – from the Achenbach picture manuscript showing the Hessen Darmstadt Army of 1813 / 14, not of that much help – I am afraid

ERROR - no url for link

ERROR - no url for link

von Winterfeldt17 Jun 2018 7:50 a.m. PST

also – for more secondary sources – especially Richard Knötel search for

Hessen Darmstadt Chevaulegers R Knötel

a lot of usefull picture reference should come up

Footslogger17 Jun 2018 8:05 a.m. PST

Thank you, von W, I shall now go and break Google Translate with that article.

In addition to the above, I now have a choice of buff, yellow buff or red brown leather for the belts.

von Winterfeldt17 Jun 2018 9:15 a.m. PST

what is your time frame?
the leather colours may have changed over the time.

Personal logo deadhead Supporting Member of TMP17 Jun 2018 10:31 a.m. PST

Oh Gott in Himmel…I had not even noticed the buff colour of the cross belts.

Stick with the experts.

This is way out of my comfort zone. Thank God we can call on the real experts on this forum. So many have dropped out due to aggressive postings

Footslogger17 Jun 2018 12:54 p.m. PST

We may just have arrived at the reason why even the Perries have avoided doing Hesse-Darmstadt light horse.

I shall make my choices, do my two figures, and then never ever show them to another living soul.

Might just get away with that.

Thank you for your help, and I hope the OP finds it useful too.

Greystreak17 Jun 2018 1:18 p.m. PST

I painted this unit nearly ten years ago, using 18mm AB Bavarian cavalry. Some fiddly details didn't scale too well on the smaller figures, so I omitted them.



Fredloan17 Jun 2018 6:03 p.m. PST

Greystreak I saw your pics earlier today online. Beautiful looking figures. I guess I could use AB Bavarians and maybe reshape the crest a bit in the front or just use as is.

I think the helmet went through some changes between 1809-1813 anyway.

Thanks for everyone's feedback.

von Winterfeldt17 Jun 2018 9:58 p.m. PST

they look great.

Fredloan18 Jun 2018 6:18 p.m. PST

New question Baden infantry what does everyone recommend. AB Figures: Blue Moon:

Bavarian helmets are too big but the Wurttembergers have a totally different lapel.

nsolomon9918 Jun 2018 7:28 p.m. PST

The Confed contingents in 1809 are a favourite of mine, ever since reading Jack Gill's "With Eagles to Glory".

I did my Darmstadters back in the 90's and used Old Glory 15s for the riders and mounted them on AB horses. (AB had no Confed figures at the time)

If I did them again today I think I'd start with the AB Bavarians and take a file lightly to the crest, then a sharp knife to put some texture back into it.

Allan F Mountford19 Jun 2018 2:26 a.m. PST

From Rawkins:

'In preparation for the campaign of 1812 the regiment received another issue of helmets, which again may have only been issued to the Leib-skadron by the time that the regiment left for Russia and to replacement troops sent to join the unit later in the year. The majority of the troopers probably did not receive the new helmet until the regiment was reconstructed in 1813. Richard Knotel show the 1806 pattern helmet being worn in 1812 but the illustrations by Ridder give the new pattern helmet as being worn as early as 1810. It is probably safe to assume that no ‘overnight' changes were made to uniforms or equipment and that as replacements were required issues of newer pattern helmets might have been made possibly at squadron or even züg level. The new helmet was similar in appearance to the 1806 raupenhelm but had a lower crown and a considerably enlarged raupe which
now curled slightly over the front plate. The plate was smaller than on the 1806 helmet but of similar shape with a scalloped lower side on the right and the plate terminating at the chin-scale boss on the left. The edge of the front plate was trimmed with brass and decorated with the crowned L cipher. The side of the helmet were trimmed with a narrow V of brass as stiffeners and the left side of the hat was decorated with the national cockade and a black plume in a brass socket. The chinstrap was plain black leather with a round brass boss. Two photographs were published in an article by Rotraud Wrede in the ‘Zeitschrift für Heerekunde' in 1975 showing a surviving 1812 pattern helmet which clearing show the method of manufacturing the raupe from horse hair twisted into wire strands, in the same manner that pipe brushes are made. The article also gives the measured dimension of the helmet; 18.5
cm in height, with the front plate 19.5 cm. The brass edging is 1.2 cm in width. Various sources show the front plate of the 1812 pattern helmet as being of differing shapes, Hourtoulle depicts a plate with equally proportioned cut-
outs either side and Richard Knotel gives a plain semi-circular plate in 1812 close fitting to the helmet with brass edging. These could be misinterpretations of contemporary sources but it is possible that some of these variations originate from the 1813 issue of new uniforms following the disaster in Russia. The complete loss of the field squadrons raised the need to completely refit the entire regiment within some 6 weeks, undoubtedly some
manufacturing variations occurred and as always it is likely that any older pattern helmets in depot stores may have been altered or remodelled to make them conform as near as possible to the most recent regulations.'

Footslogger19 Jun 2018 2:40 a.m. PST

Astonishing detail!

Thank you.

Fredloan19 Jun 2018 1:43 p.m. PST

Allan very detailed, thanks.

I did not want to incur the expense of head conversions. I could just as well slightly file down the piping at the bottom of the Wurttemberger's lapels so that they can be extended down to the bottom of the coat like the Baden infantry.

Fredloan24 Jun 2018 1:36 p.m. PST

Greystreak your Hesse Darmstad figures are beautiful. One questions, they look like Prussians with the tan/buff pants. Did you ever consider painting them with the matching blue pants? I saw 1-2 pics with them before 1809 and they seem to be the color most shown after 1809.

Simply beautiful paint job.

Thanks for sharing

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