Help support TMP


"Three Armies British as Guards" Topic


35 Posts

All members in good standing are free to post here. Opinions expressed here are solely those of the posters, and have not been cleared with nor are they endorsed by The Miniatures Page.

For more information, see the TMP FAQ.


Back to the Napoleonic Gallery Message Board



955 hits since 14 Jun 2018
©1994-2018 Bill Armintrout
Comments or corrections?

Personal logo deadhead Supporting Member of TMP14 Jun 2018 8:16 a.m. PST

Well the Coldstream Guards are finally painted, although basing obviously needs some vegetation adding. Most are from Three Armies (even the two pioneers at the back, with some conversion. A few are a plastic Perry and Victrix combination, esp the Light Company.

I went through all the Brian Fosten books, from decades ago, re uniform details especially the Guards' lace pattern. The double rows on the chest was just too much for me. I even managed to find some brass from stairs on the USS Arizona to create their distinctive buckles on the crossbelts (second pic below)……..and then painted the drums upside down……..weep.

Would genuinely appreciate pointing out of any errors……and there will be some more. The surgeon for example is not Guards, I know, but he was an old Westfalia beauty.

picture

picture

picture

picture

picture

Personal logo deadhead Supporting Member of TMP14 Jun 2018 8:25 a.m. PST

Actually, I meant to add one more. If Robert Capa had been there, the images might have looked more like this;

picture

dragon614 Jun 2018 8:27 a.m. PST

I think they are quite nice… but I'm not knowledgeable about Napoleonics

wrgmr114 Jun 2018 8:37 a.m. PST

Excellent work Liam!

Lets party with Cossacks Supporting Member of TMP14 Jun 2018 8:42 a.m. PST

These are exceptional. There is too much to name, but for me the shading on the trousers is both subtle and dramatic. The best compliment I can think of is that they are von Winterfeldt-esque.
Did you use his wash technique or how did you do the shading?
Carabinier Kettle Timpanist next please – or alternatively why not a Don Cossack?

Artilleryman14 Jun 2018 8:48 a.m. PST

Nicely done. Also good to see someone getting the regimental colours round the right way.

Frederick Supporting Member of TMP14 Jun 2018 9:52 a.m. PST

Very nicely done!

Lord Hill14 Jun 2018 11:19 a.m. PST

Superb what great painting. I love "standing around" figs, I wish there were more cavalry like this.

The Colours are very nice, where are they from?

Marc the plastics fan14 Jun 2018 12:34 p.m. PST

By their size, I am plumping for GMB

Nice looking unit there Liam. Sure your not ready for a game yet…

Outlaw Tor14 Jun 2018 1:09 p.m. PST

I did a serious search, really did…figures, incredible, but I FOUND IT! The King's Colour has a white edge showing at the top of the wrap around the staff in the fourth photo, HAH, knew they couldn't be that perfect…

Personal logo deadhead Supporting Member of TMP14 Jun 2018 1:58 p.m. PST

Flags are indeed GMB and embarrassed not to have specified. (I am quick enough to complain about not giving such credit)


Colours other than the right way round really irritates me. ( I need to get out more). Harder yet for Guards though…….defies custom and practice.


The white edge……..I went around each standard with crimson, with red, with white, with blue….but only along the edge of the flag itself. Never ever thought of the bit wrapped around the pole. Few seconds to correct. That is just brilliant. That is what I really wanted to learn from……….never even crossed my mind


I am not in von W's league and honestly thought the overalls looked too glossy in the photos. It was the lighting I needed, to get depth of focus for an f32 exposure (I wanted depth of focus)

The highlights did not show so well. The wash shading on the red worked brilliantly. I did use a wash on the grey legwear, indeed. The faces rely on the very last of my Games Workshop flesh and shading. Their new stuff is not as good.


Really appreciate this feedback.

Lord Hill14 Jun 2018 3:09 p.m. PST

Tell us more about the basing. What is that sandy mixture? What happens next? Do you add flock or static grass etc? What is the actual base made of – plastic or metal?

Also, did Guards regiments have a "Grenadier" company with white plumes, the same as line regiments?
We all know about the Guards' light companies but I don't think I've ever come across a source which mentions a Grenadier company. I imagined that, in typical Guards fashion, they decided to not follow that particular rule.

Lets party with Cossacks Supporting Member of TMP14 Jun 2018 3:25 p.m. PST

Well even if that is true you are nudging him.

Agree that standing poses are undervalued. Perhaps Deadhead you may consider the 1/72 strelets old guard recently released? As Plastic Marc might say you know you want to…

Or could you be contemplating something else?
In the absence of a denial, let us know when the Don Cossack master piece will be ready!

Looking forward to further postings.

Outlaw Tor14 Jun 2018 5:32 p.m. PST

I see white and green plumes on the flanks…

Personal logo deadhead Supporting Member of TMP15 Jun 2018 1:17 a.m. PST

Nudging is exactly what I want.

I have many a reference to the Grenadier companies in all Guard Regiments and they did have some features to distinguish them from light companies. Most were in the headwear (eg the white plume and the silver button pattern within the black cockade) but all would have been concealed by the waterproof cover. In full dress only they wore the bearskin.

Otherwise typical Guard uniform. Blue wings, extra white lace around the cuffs, down the front of the jacket and two vertical strips down the short coat tails. I wish I had done the brass plate in Greenstuff and not just painted it onto the cartridge pouch. I only gave few the Guard style brass buckles on the cross belts…..too much like hard work. For Coldstreams (I now know not 2nd Foot Guards!) I had to convert breastplate to oval….slightly oversize and officers/NCOs needed the centre silver star (Order of the Garter) and red cross within that. Same on their cap plates. All lace removed from officers' cuffs and lots of gold lace edging.

So yes Grenadiers to the right and Light company left of the line. I do recall someone telling us that even Light Infantry and Fusileer regts had such flank companies, but without uniform distinctions.

Drummers, Pioneers and Surgeon in the rear….a bit further back than I have shown of course.

Bryan Fosten's Four volumes on the Guards rig, flags, line arrangement, weapons etc proved invaluable……but a lot more expensive than the original cover price of £0.55 GBPp each. Why did I not keep my original copies?


I'll come back on the bases with some pictures and details, dead simple and dirt cheap

Lord Hill15 Jun 2018 2:27 a.m. PST

I'll come back on the bases with some pictures and details, dead simple and dirt cheap

Great, thanks. As a fellow "stare at them on a shelf rather than moving them around a table" type, I think the bases already look great!

Personal logo deadhead Supporting Member of TMP15 Jun 2018 3:29 a.m. PST

They look even better once some vegetation added.

Recently I have tended to overdo that and I am trying to retrain myself.

These were amongst the first I ever painted and based;

picture

Brownand15 Jun 2018 3:48 a.m. PST

Great looking figures. Sculpting is very good, like indeed their pose.

Lets party with Cossacks Supporting Member of TMP15 Jun 2018 4:26 a.m. PST

Nice

Personal logo deadhead Supporting Member of TMP15 Jun 2018 5:30 a.m. PST

The basing. Very simple and I fear nothing new…other than the "Perforated plates" 60x140x2mm (though they come in several sizes and in dark brown or light grey). Steel, so indestructible and great for heavy metallic figures en masse. They never warp.

I always apply some self adhesive label to the underside and then simple Pollyfilla (not the extra smooth, not the fast drying, the bog standard stuff.

Painting is just with Humbrol Acrylic 26 or 29.

Tricky with three ranks of infantry (one rank of cavalry a cinch). I applied Pollyfilla just to the front third and stuck on the figures (with their own bases pre painted). Next day painted the surface and after half an hour added the second third of basing…….and so on.

Extra texture from suitable gravel and flock grass or instead tufts (I favour them). I have all sorts of vegetation esp nettles to add, but find they "overdo it".

The plates are about two quid each and well worth it. B and Q anywhere (in the UK anyway)

picture

von Winterfeldt15 Jun 2018 10:27 a.m. PST

very nice, impressive – inspiring

Personal logo deadhead Supporting Member of TMP15 Jun 2018 1:51 p.m. PST

Now, from you, or Rafa…….

No, you folks inspired me.

You, von W, told me to use more contrast on the rolled blanket on top of the black backpack. It works.

I really want to hear what is wrong to learn from the experts.

It might sound daft, but I do not want to find what I got so right, unless folk want to copy something successful. I really do want to hear where I went awray.

The Guards did not do this in 1815. Where did I go wrong? This is how we learn. You do not need to think you will abuse me, you need to tell me.

I do admit, now, one problem. My NCOs are guarding the colours. Of course, gold lace. But they are centre cos then.

So the shoulder edge of the epaulettes? White fringe…. or some gold look (surely not)

Markconz15 Jun 2018 6:02 p.m. PST

Excellent work on excellent figures Liam!

Three Armies16 Jun 2018 11:12 a.m. PST

Thanks Liam, Excellent paint job on my figures there, and good to see that they fit in well with the odd Perry figure added in too.

Three Armies16 Jun 2018 11:13 a.m. PST

ps the kickstarter is now finished and of course these will go on general release on the web site soon. Unfortunatly my main caster suffered a heart attack recently and I'm awaiting his full recovery before progressing.

Lord Hill16 Jun 2018 1:53 p.m. PST

Thanks for the details Liam, very helpful.

El Lobo17 Jun 2018 5:54 a.m. PST

Very good.

Personal logo deadhead Supporting Member of TMP17 Jun 2018 11:38 a.m. PST

Thanks all. Almost 203 years on (tomorrow)…and I cannot imagine the colours just outside the walls of Hgmt……….but glad these figures are done.

Sat in the sun, outside, today, with "She Who Must be Obeyed" and decided that Dec 1st is the day to give up the day job and stick to this…….snag is the OR session tomorrow morning….groan.

Trust me folks. Do not try to do Guards….tricky.

Personal logo deadhead Supporting Member of TMP17 Jun 2018 11:43 a.m. PST

Thanks all. Almost 203 years on…and I cannot imagine the colours outside the walls of Hgmt……….but glad these are done.

Sat in the sun, outside, today, with She Who Must be Obeyed and decided that Dec 1st is the day to give up the day job and stick to this…….snag is the OR session tomorrow morning….groan.

Trust me folks. Do not try to do Guards….tricky.

Phatt Rhatt18 Jun 2018 7:26 a.m. PST

Great work!

C M DODSON13 Jul 2018 9:03 a.m. PST

Hello Mr D.

Apologies for. missing your magnificent work until my good friend Thomas Mischak pointed it out.

Please do not think this as a criticism as your skill is way beyond mine.

However, I was under the impression from Cent Jours and Adkin that the Coldstreams were very fond of their white trousers rather than the usual grey.

Also the Kings Colours were normally to the right or are Guards different?

I know you like your detail and I have Guatds units to create for my Quatre Bras re fight so your thoughts would be useful.

Best wishes,

Chris

Personal logo deadhead Supporting Member of TMP13 Jul 2018 1:57 p.m. PST

Really glad you raised these two issues. Criticism I want, seriously.

How else will I learn?

Especially as this posting was long moribund.

Let me tackle the second question first. Well done for even raising the issue, Few do get it right, curiously, when the chances are 50/50 anyway!

The Guards (indeed the whole British Army) is/are a minefield. French are so easy.

What you see here is actually still exactly what you are saying. The King's Colour is always right of the Regimental colour. Snag is that, for the Guards regts, the Burgundy coloured standard IS the King's Colour, so then the national flag (The "Union Jack" basically) becomes the regt (or colonel's strictly) colour. Crazy, is it not? It looks the reverse of any line unit arrangement! But that is the Guards. A law unto themselves

The white overalls have been discussed here many times and largely rejected. The NMA used to have a marvellous mannikin in such also. It is likely to be more to do with artists' impressions immediately after the battle. Stress this remains a controversy though.

Guards uniform details are murder. White lace edging to cuffs and jacket front. Two white vertical stripes on coat tails. Brass on the cartridge pouch. Unique buckles on the crossbelts. Blue wings for flank companies. Officers are worse. No lace on cuffs or collar, except on the edges. Gold lace on every turnback…etc etc……..

As for the spacing of the buttons and the lace especially….single, paired, triple, bastion ended lace or straight etc

C M DODSON14 Jul 2018 7:26 a.m. PST

Hello Mr D.

Please it's not a criticism, it's an enquiry!

Anyway, thank you for clearing up the flag issue, most strange as you say.

I have read your trousers topic and Mr Franklins views. I also have seen the war museums chap, I think from memory with a Cuirassier.

My friend from Scotland, General Picton is an expert researcher and he may well have a view on trousers too. We shall see.

I deal with 1/72 and whilst I want my troops to look the part I am not capable of detailing them like you do. Nevertheless, the correct ' feel' is what I am looking to achieve as they battle Johnny frog.

Best wishes,

Chris

All good stuff.

bracken Supporting Member of TMP14 Jul 2018 9:41 a.m. PST

WOW! They look amazing, especially the black and white photo. It's adds atmosphere and character!

Personal logo deadhead Supporting Member of TMP14 Jul 2018 10:17 a.m. PST

I too love the black and white photo and may try to do it again on other figures…or even with a sepia effect.

Heck, give or take a few decades of invention, this is what we would have expected to see…if only!

Would love to hear any new evidence on the white overalls for Guards. Bound to wonder when some artists did show them thus and with many another detail correctly portrayed. See earlier discussions;


TMP link
TMP link
TMP link

Sorry - only verified members can post on the forums.