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"Anyone game Operation Jubilee (Dieppe)?" Topic


18 Posts

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488 hits since 8 Jun 2018
©1994-2018 Bill Armintrout
Comments or corrections?

Nick Stern Supporting Member of TMP08 Jun 2018 3:06 p.m. PST

Not much fun for the British/Canadian player. The raid on coastal battery Hess by No. 4 Commando (with 50 US Rangers)might make a good Bolt Action Game

Redblack08 Jun 2018 3:24 p.m. PST

Years back a group tried a game at a Canadian show and as suspected it was very one sided.

Nick Stern Supporting Member of TMP08 Jun 2018 3:38 p.m. PST

I got to thinking about this because I am running a game with the British Paras at Arnhem bridge and I wondered if Dieppe was any less of a gallant sacrifice or more of a lost cause than Market Garden, which is frequently gamed.

Winston Smith Supporting Member of TMP08 Jun 2018 5:47 p.m. PST

There is no comparison.
Market Garden actually had a chance of succeeding.
Dieppe was a totally stupid waste of good men, and I've never read a coherent justification for it.
"How badly will we get shot up if we directly attack a harbor? Let's throw these good men away and find out!"

Personal logo Unlucky General Supporting Member of TMP08 Jun 2018 9:22 p.m. PST

I'm starting to build armies for Jubilee as it happens. In game terms it depends how you define the victory parameters I suppose. It could have been 'more' successful but every what-if went against them.

Big Martin Back08 Jun 2018 11:40 p.m. PST

We were going to do it (I even went to Dieppe to look at the area first hand), but the idea fizzled out for some reason.

Fred Cartwright09 Jun 2018 5:52 a.m. PST

They should have followed Monty's advice and cancelled it, but it was one of those operations where a lot of interested parties were pushing hard for it to go ahead. The RAF wanted it to provoke a Luftwaffe response close to the coast where the British fighters would have an advantage, Stalin was pushing hard for a second front and the Canadian government were pushing for Canadian troops to get into combat. It was also one of those ops were everything that could go wrong seemed to go wrong. Intelligence errors faulty appreciation of the terrain, blundering into German naval forces on the run in to the beach etc. If. Thing else it proved that the allies were not ready to mount any sort of large scale amphibious assault.

Silurian09 Jun 2018 7:37 a.m. PST

Seems like it would be an enjoyable game, and not nearly so one-sided (at the immediate time of the raid), if you give the Churchills a greater chance of escaping being mired on the pebbly beach. Then there will be a decent amount of challenging street fighting.

Legion 409 Jun 2018 7:59 a.m. PST

It certainly was an interesting battle. And maybe on the gaming table things could go a little differently.

14Bore09 Jun 2018 8:24 a.m. PST

Dieppe was a big What if? gamble, but had to be tried.

Winston Smith Supporting Member of TMP09 Jun 2018 9:49 a.m. PST

It would be one if those "games" where you are expected to fail. You "win" by lasting 12 turns instead of 9.
I've never liked that kind of game.

It "had to" be done…. Really?

Fred Cartwright09 Jun 2018 10:08 a.m. PST

It would be one if those "games" where you are expected to fail. You "win" by lasting 12 turns instead of 9.

I guess that would depend if you replayed it with all the historical disadvantages or did without any interference from German naval units, and beefed up the gunfire and air support. You could also ignore things like the pebbled beach jamming the Churchill tracks and give the allies some ramp tanks to enable to beach wall to be traversed. That would give the allies a much better chance.

Winston Smith Supporting Member of TMP09 Jun 2018 11:21 a.m. PST

For what purpose?
As I said, I've never understood the purpose of the Dieppe "raid".

Fred Cartwright09 Jun 2018 11:43 a.m. PST

As I said, I've never understood the purpose of the Dieppe "raid".

We covered that. To keep Stalin, the RAF and the Canadian government happy. And despite the claims post war that the Canadians were sacrificed by those dastardly British it was the Canadian government pushing that got them assigned to Dieppe. Many of the Canadian officers were very confident of their chances before the attack. What a difference a few days make. Not the only WW2 operation to be heavily influenced by political considerations. And at least with it being such a disaster everyone could tell Stalin with a straight face that we tried, got stuffed and aren't trying again for another couple of years.

Legion 409 Jun 2018 2:06 p.m. PST

I read that some of the lessons learned at Dieppe helped with planning, etc., for Normandy. A good example of a very "steep learning curve" … sadly. But it did happen often it seems at times …

Martin Rapier10 Jun 2018 1:43 a.m. PST

There is a decent Dieppe scenario in GBWW2, which I've converted to both Megablitz and NATO Brigade Commander, but never got around to playing.

Operational so you can do the commando raids, potential para drop and all the assault planning.

As noted above, the historical frontal assault up the shingle into a hail of MG fire isn't very interesting tactically.

Zinkala10 Jun 2018 9:48 a.m. PST

I saw a documentary recently that claimed that a large part of why they tried the Dieppe raid was to capture a newer version of the Enigma machine from the germans. Supposedly it was top secret information that was only released a few years ago. Not sure if it is true or just trying to justify what was otherwise a waste.

On a side note a friend of mine's grandfather was involved in the raid as well as my grandfather's best friend both with the South Saskatchewan Regiment. They both survived, returned to England and later fought through north west Europe after D day.

Grandpa's friend was one of those that wouldn't talk about his experiences. My dad tried to get him to talk to me about it and all he'd say was, "We were young and stupid and didn't know what we were in for." He was a volunteer almost from the start of the war and a radio operator for the artillery forward observer. Add in that he was at Dieppe and I guess I can understand his opinion on it.

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