"Star Wars has a White Male fandom problem" Topic

It does? If you say so, boss.

They'd probably enjoy "death by snu-snu" though.

Dan

I suppose that the author would frown on my suggestion that they strap Kathleen Kennedy to the next SpaceX launch, and replace her with Dave Filoni?

Characters, story, internal consistency? Bahhh, who needs that, right?

Sex and the City needed more fishing.

Clearly, a franchise which featured black, female and non-human heroes from its earliest episodes stands in urgent need of more "diversity" because everything does which isn't exclusively black or female. (THOSE things must never be touched.)

But we're ignoring the greatest continuity of Star Wars. What's the count now? Ten feature films, three TV movies and I have no idea how many cartoons? But setting aside the Ewok cartoon show, have they ever had a villain who wasn't a straight white male human? If they really want to be diverse, seems to me there might be an opening there.

Given the reaction by you folks I think a nerve has been hit. How can you ignore the young actress getting trolled by a bunch of bozos?

Lloyd, since I wasn't one of the bozos, and since there are people with real problems in the world, you'd be amazed at how much anonymous verbal abuse on the Net I can ignore. And
1) since the abuse was anonymous, how exactly has the complainant determined that it must have been a bunch of white males?
2) assuming the bozo was, that makes it a "white male problem?" Could the same generalization be made if a black or Muslim had somehow offended?

And what I've said about the Disney version of the franchise isn't half as bad as what I said about George Lucas' last three movies. It's just that he couldn't fall back on the Diversity Defense and call me a bigot for disliking clumsy plotting unbelievable characters and atrocious dialogue.

Robert, Captain Phasma was a female villain. Not the main villain, but a villain anyway. And Assaj Ventress from The Clone Wars animated movie was a non-human woman.

Characters, story, internal consistency? Bahhh, who needs that, right?

A common and often convenient method for disguising one's true motivations and reasons is to paper them over with "valid" excuses.

TFA is 8/10 on IMDB, 93 percent on RT with an 81 percent Metacritic score.

TLJ is not far behind with 7.3/10 on IMDB, 91 percent RT rating and 85 percent on Metacritic.

So many movie critics who value their integrity, independence and ability to speak their minds simply can't all be so wrong at the same time in a "conspiracy of rave reviews."

In the final analysis, Episodes VII and VIII (the Disney Star Wars films) committed no more bad characterization, storytelling, plot holes, inconsistencies, bad dialogue or other real and imagined transgressions the White Male Fandom (WMF) can think of in order to divert our attention from their misogyny and xenophobia than Episodes IV, V and VI.

So if the WMF can't enjoy SW with an open mind and can no longer have the perfect SW world of their childhood, one in which hotshot X-Wing jocks can do no wrong much less be given a humbling dressing down by a pink-haired vice-admiral wannabe and one where a great Jedi as Luke Skywalker can never turn into a cynical old defeatist/hermit, what are they to do? They must try and "destroy it in order to save it," of course. If they can't enjoy SW, then God forbid why should the rest of us?

The truth is out and you have been exposed: link

So grow up, "rampant baby-men"!

I love being called a misogynist by a misandrist who doesn't even know me -- just because I don't like a movie. I love the way plot, story, characters, and consistency are merely disguises for some evil motivation. I guess that's true, since those elements are absent in nearly everything to come out of Hollywood lately, so anyone who expects story, characterization, or dialog must be some kind of "ist." I guest this "ist" will stick to old black and white movies.

+2 Surdu2005

The Best answer is to not go to the movie or buy any of the crap based on it. Hollywood only cares about $$$$$$$$$, So bring about their worst fears and not care. All the Original characters are dead, So I'am done.

First of all, I blame George Lucas.
Then I blame the internet.

Before just plain Star Wars became Episode IV, it was just a plain good old gosh darn adventure story.
Then it became a whole mythology, and Those wished it to explain Everything.
That's when it all went to Hell.
Too many people wanted Star Wars to replace The Bible and Bullfinch, yet be true to it.
Then "agendas" came in.

Should have stopped with the 3rd movie.

I actually didn't mind TFA. It was a re-hash of ANH, but it served a purpose, and I left it feeling hopeful.

Rian Johnson took that feeling of hopefulness and crapped all over it. It's like he grew up as the kid that no one would let him play with their Star Wars toys, so he decided to get his revenge. TLJ was pure junk, and I question the sanity of any "fan" that thinks otherwise. Rogue One was excellent, and Solo was actually quite good. Just don't try and shove your agenda down my throat, at the expense of a universe I have loved and supported for over 25 years.

I put up with wiping/retconning the EU so that Disney could have some breathing room. Some of it was good (Thrawn trilogy, most of the X-Wing series) and some not so good (Not a big fan of the Vampire Space-Dino's in Bakura).

Now it just feels like KK wanted some lebensraum…

Robert: "everything does which isn't exclusively black or female. (THOSE things must never be touched)."

Yes. Discussing those is absolutely out of bounds for some reason, no matter now innocent and logical your questions might be. You'll only invite a barrage of predictably spiteful cookie-cutter insults. :)

Dan

"clumsy plotting unbelievable characters and atrocious dialogue."

TLJ in a nutshell.

I miss when Star Wars was just fun space fantasy escapism. :-(

"Captain Phasma was a female villain"

Really? From what I saw in the last two movies she didn't do anything. :)

…Many fantastic comments above. Thanks all. I don't think there is any 'problem' unless you assume everybody should like it… Interesting that the primary concern of so many seems to be the racial/gender/political identity of those who diverge from the proper and accepted mindless fandom…
Yep, no problem at all.
I know, I have committed 'hate speech' AND 'thought crime'…

On the bright side I still enjoy the original 3 movies (non-'remastered') and an occasional friendly game of X-wing.

@ 28 Fanatik

I don't like the critics opinions as I often find them bias and flat out wrong. Many are aware if they give bad reviews they may not be invited to the next first viewing. I personally trust the audience review far more and find it more accurate in determining if I should go see the film or not. For example because of the audience I'm thinking about seeing solo.

TLJ was bad film for many reasons already named and Disney/Kennedy would be wise to tighten up their film making and get off the agenda. People want to have fun and not be given a sermon at SW films. It served no purpose to destroy the original SW other then to make a lot of people unhappy. They could have easily went a different route with SW without damaging the old one.

Christopher

Captain Phasma was indeed a (white) female villain. So one third tier villainess in ten movies. I had to look her up, though, and I sat all the way through The Force Awakens.

Look. One more time for the slow learners. If I bought The Night Watch from whatever museum has the original, and repainted everyone in camouflaged power armor--well, some of the SF gamers might be thrilled, but there would be legitimate upset, and the more so because I'm not a very good painter. The current Hollywood crowd has every legal right to go back through old and beloved franchises and bend them to agree with current leftist sensibilities, but it's a bit rich to argue that the only reason anyone could object to their work is bigotry.

Now I'm going to go paint some toy soldiers.

Well said, Robert!

Can someone wiser than me in the ways of the force explain specifically how TLJ destroyed Star Wars? Thanks.

Did anyone actually time how long Rey held out her arm offering Luke the lightsaber?

There were lots of giggles at the theater during that scene after a while, as it seemed to drag on forever. Yet I'm sure it couldn't have lasted more than half an hour. :)

Dan

Every episode "destroys" star wars Lostpic.

I felt it was too short on what excites SW fans and too long on the very boring internal angst of the rebellion.

Character development has never been Lucas's strength, and it showed in the original trilogy of 1977-1983. While that was just fine back in those days, today's jaded audiences demand so much more. Just look at two of our top contemporary genre shows on TV, 'Game of Thrones' and 'The Walking Dead.' Both provide plenty of angst, drama (not melodrama) and interpersonal conflict playing out in a variety of ways.

Today's SW is not the SW we fondly remember from our childhoods. The sooner we come to terms with it the better.

Today's SW is not the SW we fondly remember from our childhoods. The sooner we come to terms with it the better.

…or…maybe they just created a mess of a movie and are seeking to cast blame elsewhere…

YouTube link

i almost wish i had seen TLJ so i could participate in this conversation.

Nah, just kidding.

now i just wait for the handful of people i know and trust their movie opinion on to tell me if any installment is worth seeing before i go and get abused anymore.

I,II,III broke me.

Rose Tico was a terrible character, the ethnicity is irrelevant.

Rose Tico was a terrible character, the ethnicity is irrelevant.

I see. That makes it okay to bully her off Instagram then.

If Rose Tico had an account, sure.
Harrassing Kelly Tran isn't acceptable however.

I see. That makes it okay to bully her off Instagram then.

Nope, of course not -- if it happened. Seems more like part of a campaign to divert blame for making a shambles out of the Star Wars franchise by making up a "fanboyz gone wild!" attack strawman they can go postal on. Heck, even Colbert is getting into the act! So, if it happened to her, that sucks, but I see such a frenzy of attacks on people being critical of the movie as being all racist, sexist, blah blah blah that I'm suspicious of the whole thing.

"clumsy plotting unbelievable characters and atrocious dialogue."

It's almost like you're describing "A new hope". Something that George WAS called on by several actors during the making of those movies.

The movie that George couldn't win a directing oscar for (because he resigned from the DGA, and you HAVE to be a member to be nominated for the oscars) but his then wife COULD and did win one for editing. She curbed most of his excesses.

It's never going to be nominated for a writing award. He couldn't write dialogue to save his own life. Some of the best lines are ad-libs.