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"Do you build 2 British Armies for AWI?" Topic


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panzerjager06 Jun 2018 6:16 a.m. PST

I have always wondered what other gamers do with their British units to account for the practical changes in appearance to uniforms during the course of the war. Often it is noted that the uniforms were changed / cut down to account for the practical need of the soldiers on campaign.

British lights did not look the same in 1778 as they did in 1775-1776.

Do you have early and late war units which never mix on the battle field? Or as a gamer are you more practical yourself and run with what you have ready and painted?

Thanks

PzJ

StCrispin06 Jun 2018 6:24 a.m. PST

i definitely just use the minis i have. but AWI is one of many side projects for me, so i don't worry much about it. I've certainly seen gamers who do uniforms for specific campaigns.

Personal logo ColCampbell Supporting Member of TMP06 Jun 2018 6:27 a.m. PST

I use what I have based on my early acquisition of "true" 25mm figures from Scruby. Miniature Figurines, and Custom Cast. With the amount I have, I can't see any justification in switching to "more modern" figures.

See link for an example. I expect these units to fight anywhere in the "colonies" at any time period.

Jim

Joes Shop Supporting Member of TMP06 Jun 2018 6:34 a.m. PST

"I expect these units to fight anywhere in the "colonies" at any time period."

What Jim said. While I enjoy researching the change in uniforms I have no desire or need for '2' British Armies in my collection.

Winston Smith06 Jun 2018 6:47 a.m. PST

They are what I say they are. In my basement.
Were I to go on the road, they would be "accurate".
For instance, I have a Chew House project in the works.
I have my eye on The Chateau from Sarissa and have the Della Gatta uniform British from 3 different manufacturers. In the back of my head, if it works out, I might want to do this at a convention.
But in my basement, I use 1768 Warrant uniforms at Guilford Courthouse.

And it's not just the British. Are you going to have 4 different uniforms for the 3rd Continental Light Dragoons? How many Lee's Legions do you have?

Winston Smith06 Jun 2018 6:48 a.m. PST

I once calculated 4 entirely different uniforms for the 23rd Royal Welch Fusiliers.
Sure. grin

DisasterWargamer Supporting Member of TMP06 Jun 2018 7:01 a.m. PST

As others have said – I keep a variety in 1 army each

Bash On06 Jun 2018 7:03 a.m. PST

Perhaps in the future, when retired, but until then there are too many minis in the lead pile and too little time.

gisbygeo06 Jun 2018 7:03 a.m. PST

I always tell my units that they are lucky they get different FACINGS.

Of course they would be hard-pressed to identify what campaign they are in, as most of my units never served together, and some may never have left Canada. If I'm not paying attention, I may even paint the same unit more than once.

21eRegt06 Jun 2018 7:06 a.m. PST

Absolutely not. I have neither the financial wherewithal or motivation to represent the different stages of the revolution.

bruntonboy06 Jun 2018 7:22 a.m. PST

I am sorry to say I have an early army in tricorns and a later one in slouch hats etc..I am tempted to also do a Saratoga army too….good job they are only small armies.After saying this for any larger sized games both forces end up on the table at once.

Think in total I have about 30 British units in 15mm scale- including American loyalist units. Germans are in addition.

Virginia Tory06 Jun 2018 7:28 a.m. PST

I do a mix of units with the 68 regs and cocked hats, but the majority are in campaign dress 1777 and onward.

I also have a Burgoyne force, which looks different from pretty much everyone else.

79thPA Supporting Member of TMP06 Jun 2018 7:52 a.m. PST

Hell no. I expect a British infantry figure to serve from the beginning of the French and Indian War through the end of the AWI.

Winston Smith06 Jun 2018 8:00 a.m. PST

79thPa, I see you believe in REALLY long enlistments.

Winston Smith06 Jun 2018 8:02 a.m. PST

I know French Napoleonic players who happily invade Russia or fight at Waterloo in 1805 uniforms.

coopman06 Jun 2018 8:47 a.m. PST

Hell no – use what you have & be happy. :^)

Doug MSC Supporting Member of TMP06 Jun 2018 9:08 a.m. PST

I have a mix of Regiments in various uniforms. Whatever Uniform I choose and they fight in all the various battles.
Some units in Slouch Hats some in tricorns and some in other hats. I like the mix and it provides variety when painting.

robert piepenbrink Supporting Member of TMP06 Jun 2018 9:12 a.m. PST

I'm with the majority here. Four 15mm British armies are expected to serve from Blenheim to Waterloo. If I changed with every change in regulations or campaign dress, I'd need at least three for the AWI, and four to get me from Vimerio to Waterloo. I figure troops should be dressed in an appropriate uniform for the war (more or less) and I'm insistent that I know without question what side they're on and the sort of unit they represent. Anything more detailed becomes overwhelming.

Bill N06 Jun 2018 9:18 a.m. PST

It is taking me long enough trying to build even one British army!

22ndFoot06 Jun 2018 9:28 a.m. PST

My Crown army is based on Brandywine and, as a result, is in 1777 uniforms – roundabouts, trousers and slouch hats. However, regiments that were at Breed's Hill are depicted in warrant uniforms.

All rather arbitrary and incorrect, but it works for me – I'm certainly not going to paint anymore twenty-four-figure 28mm battalions than I have to.

Personal logo Herkybird Supporting Member of TMP06 Jun 2018 10:26 a.m. PST

I just do the Regulation uniforms for regulars, not too bothered about excessive accuracy if the game looks good!

Winston Smith06 Jun 2018 10:58 a.m. PST

One of the first regiments I ever painted was the 38th Foot, mainly because I could get plates in different books showing the Grenadier, Light Company, drummer, flag, etc. I even painted the lace, from Mollo.
I don't think I have ever used them as the 38th Foot in a historical battle. Usually they're just "some guys".

They're whoever I want them to be.
Just as Hessians serve as Brunswick troops.
I'm not made of money. grin
Peter Gilder supplied painted figures for a coffee table book published in the 70s showing AWI battles. He used SYW Prussian figures, with Prussian flags, for Hessians.

ZULUPAUL Supporting Member of TMP06 Jun 2018 11:18 a.m. PST

Nope, I use what I have & don't get fixated on specific regiments either.

charles popp06 Jun 2018 11:30 a.m. PST

I am starting this in 15mm. not going to go crazy to start.

nevinsrip06 Jun 2018 11:40 a.m. PST

I have different regiments for 4 main campaigns in the correct uniforms. Boston, Saratoga, Philly-NY and finally the South.

Yes, I am crazy.

Personal logo Der Alte Fritz Sponsoring Member of TMP06 Jun 2018 11:52 a.m. PST

The Fife & Drum figure ranged targets the 1777 Philadelphia Campaign uniforms that should work in the Southern Theater. If I were to game Saratoga I would consider using the British Saratoga uniform and thus have two armies. If I didn't have Saratoga figures and wanted to game the battle, I'd just use whatever I had on hand.

Jim

bruntonboy06 Jun 2018 2:58 p.m. PST

In similar fashion I also have separate forces for the 1940 BEF and 44 BLA and matching German infantry and paratroops for those years too. Similarly if (when) I do Waterloo and the Peninsula I'll probably end up with two forces. After saying all that I'll happily use any figures but just prefer to have the correct figures if I can.

Axebreaker06 Jun 2018 3:24 p.m. PST

No I have a mix. I prefer and use the Southern Campaign uniform for all games, but have some in earlier uniforms as well. While I do prefer the Southern uniform in most cases lets face it the Grenadiers do look the biz in bearskins don't they.:-)

Christopher

Personal logo Yellow Admiral Supporting Member of TMP06 Jun 2018 4:16 p.m. PST

I am more inclined to mix uniforms from places and periods in the same army, for variety and to help players tell their own units apart. With 15mm redcoats, I already have too many problems with players shifting stands with different facings and even poses between units. Redcoats are hard to tell apart.

I'm not really as interested in getting the whole army to look consistent as I am to get a wide sampling of interesting uniforms into my collection. Once a unit is painted and based, you bet it's going on the table.

- Ix

saltflats192906 Jun 2018 6:10 p.m. PST

2 British armies?
You need THREE.
Early war, Saratoga, and Southern. Then of course you should have it in at least 3 scales…

Old Contemptibles06 Jun 2018 7:23 p.m. PST

I came late to the AWI. The Perry Brothers had already added the Southern and Saratoga uniforms to their offerings. Like many I started with the Southern Campaign, so why wouldn't I use the Southern Campaign figures? I also use these same figures for New York, New Jersey and the Philly Campaigns.

In my opinion the only time you saw an enlisted British soldier in a tricorne was at Lexington-Concord and Bunker Hill. So I think floppy hats and cut-down coats were the standard in those northern campaigns as well. The second campaign I jumped into was Saratoga. Perry makes the figures which I believe are correct. So why not use them? Makes no sense not to.

I am not sure what everyone means by "Army" in the sense of a personal collection. I only do the units listed in the scenarios. Have I had to use Saratoga units for other campaigns? Absolutely! Particularly artillery and light infantry.

I find having closer to accurate figures for each campaign is a worthy goal. May never get there but the fun is in the attempt. I will not apologize for this. Some on here are making it sound like some sort of crime. We should feel fortunate that we have such figures for these campaigns.

nevinsrip06 Jun 2018 7:29 p.m. PST

My KMM figures are all Southern Campaign uniformed, just as Jim's are for the Philly Campaign. In fact, I used Jim's figures for that very same campaign in my collection.

For Boston I use a mix of Foundry, Perry, Old Glory and both Perry and WGF plastics. Probably some Front Rank and others mixed in as well.

At Saratoga I'm mostly Perry both plastic and a lot of metals for the British side. The Hessians, too.
For the other side I have Perry, Foundry and Old Glory.
But I have all sorts of others mixed in. I used my own KMM Over Mountain Men as Morgans Riflemen and my Dismounted Dragoons for both sides. I should mention Eureka as another large portion of my Patriots.

As for scales, I have my 28 mm stuff, but I also have 54 mm unpainted plastic mostly old Marx playsets and figures. And then I have a collection of 60 mm Painted Metal like Britains and Conte.
It's a long story…..

Normal Guy Supporting Member of TMP06 Jun 2018 8:22 p.m. PST

Tommy's house. Tommy's game. Tommy's figures. They wear what they wear.

Old Contemptibles06 Jun 2018 10:05 p.m. PST

The guys I do these games for, don't have a clue about AWI uniforms. I do it for myself.

FusilierDan07 Jun 2018 4:07 a.m. PST

I'm building one. I've used the Perry Saratoga figures for the most part but also have Front Rank and Old Glory. As a gamer I'm using those figures for whatever scenario I pick regardless of theater or year.

DHautpol07 Jun 2018 4:32 a.m. PST

SaltFlats1929 "Then of course you should have it in at least 3 scales…"

Funny you should say that, I have British AWI in 6mm (together with 6mm Rebels to solo game at home) and 15mm British because that was being used at the club I used to attend. Then I got some 28mm Perry plastics at Salute a few years ago; I'm examining the contents at home and thought "Are you mad, you now have British AWI in three different sizes and they're NOT even your main interest?".

Gnu200007 Jun 2018 4:43 a.m. PST

AWI is my main focus. Everything is in one scale (28mm). I have one Army for 1775 in warrant uniform, a larger army in campaign gear and more dispersed basing for most of the rest and have just started a specific Saratoga army. There might someday be a fourth, 1781 add-on with a return to proper uniforms and less open order tactics.

I do also use the 1775 army for hypothetical European battles involving the French and Hessians. For which I need to add some heavier and more plentiful cavalry.

CarasML12 Jun 2018 4:28 a.m. PST

Granted the British Army underwent a uniform change out if necessity over the period of the war, but I have to agree with those that mentioned earlier that I paint the figures as they are. Thus if I have Old Glory British Line Advancing, and I'm going to paint up, say, the 33rd RoF ( they seemed to be in the majority of action during the AWI). The would be painting up the 40th RoF, and using them either as their own BN or a BN of "light Bob's".
I think exploring this multiple uniform question would be more complex if you asked it of Continental units. There you'd have, for example, the 2nd VA starting the war in hunting shirts, transitioning to unique regiments, followed by French Contract coats (referred to often as " lottery" coats, and such).
Basically, if I have good info on a units appearance,I'll paint it up to that just for the fun of it. Thus I might have a Continental BRIGADE made up of one regimental in it's '76 uniform, another in it's Philly Campaign uniform and another in a late war uniform. Yeah, not the most authentic, but I do this for fun, not to publish cutting edge research like we're hunting shirts opened or closed, Russia drilling or hemp for accoutrement straps, etc…

Legionarius03 Sep 2021 7:28 p.m. PST

My British 15mm have red coats, my French bone white, militia may have blue, brown, or green. They fight all the way from the 7 Years War and even before to the time they changed into shakos. Different facings for different units and off we go! Too much lead; too little time.

Personal logo John the OFM Supporting Member of TMP03 Sep 2021 7:52 p.m. PST

What a silly question. grin
I have played Guilford Courthouse with the 23rd being Hinchliffe Grenadiers with shaved wings. 1768 Warrant uniform.
What nonsense to think that this very hard working regiment needs to be fully represented by 4 full units, differently uniformed.
If anyone feels I'm being heretical or schismatic, buy me painted units cod 24 figures each, fully painted with flags.
The very idea…..

Personal logo John the OFM Supporting Member of TMP03 Sep 2021 7:54 p.m. PST

What about the 4 Continental Light Dragoons, whose uniforms changed almost yearly?
I'm running AWI games. Not a museum display.
Harrumph.

That Winston Smith fellar is a pretty smart dude.

Personal logo ezza123 Supporting Member of TMP04 Sep 2021 2:04 a.m. PST

"I'm running AWI games. Not a museum display." – well said that man.

My AWI forces for both sides are mainly Foundry and Perry with a smattering of Front Rank, Warlord and a few other manufactures. Quite a bit obtained from eBay, so beholden to the painting skills of others and a mix of uniform styles. But not to worry as they fought everywhere from New Jersey, into Pennsylvania, down to the Carolinas and along the Florida coast. All without me being pelted with dice by angry purists or threatened with a rolled-up quick reference sheet.

Ezza

Bill N04 Sep 2021 6:52 a.m. PST

Well said John. You forgot the bit though about Loyalist units that also seemed to change uniforms almost yearly, many of which we don't have descriptions for, and the part about summer v. winter leggings.

Personal logo Old Contemptible Supporting Member of TMP06 Sep 2021 1:21 a.m. PST

Why are you guys posting to a thread from 2018?

Why all the anger?

How about we order some of Perry's Saratoga and Southern uniform figures just to melt them down into musket balls? Will that make everyone feel better?

Personal logo Old Contemptible Supporting Member of TMP06 Sep 2021 1:38 a.m. PST

Well someone is ordering those figures and painting them. You can add my name to that list. If I want to have those uniformed figures in my collection, I bloody well can. I am not one bit ashamed of it. Not only that, I have Southern and Northern militia separately and I have units with them mixed. (I am hearing minds being blown.)

I am considering doing Lexington, Concord and Bunker Hill and I may already have the correct figures for it and if not I will buy the them and paint them.

I am a Curator and I will curate my collection. If you don't like it too bad!

This coming from guys who buy individual heads and swap them to get the correct figure for a particular battle.

Bill N06 Sep 2021 9:17 a.m. PST

The question is timeless. Someone else had already revived it. That is why I joined back in.

I do not see any anger, or objections against those who strive to accurately represent how troops appeared for each campaign. If you have the time, the ability, the motivation and the money to do each of your desired units in each of its depictions over the course of the AWI, then more power to you. There are limits to how far I am prepared to go.

Personal logo doc mcb Supporting Member of TMP06 Sep 2021 6:11 p.m. PST

I painted my first Amer Revos in 1960, in the 9th grade. 30mmScrubys, which are still serving. Accurate uniform info was scarce: Barnes' UNIFORM OF THE BRITISH EMPIRE and such, with a few small plates. And Scruby only made one sort of Brit regular.

Sixty years later I have lots of info, and thousands of toys, but most of them are still in the early uniform. Inertia, a preference for the fancier look, and also the fact that I am a TEACHER most of whose gaming is with kids. They neither know nor care about uniform accuracy.

If it ain't broke don't fix it.

laretenue08 Sep 2021 8:14 a.m. PST

Do your armies in 2mm and swear to everyone that they're period-faithful.

robert piepenbrink Supporting Member of TMP17 Sep 2021 4:14 p.m. PST

Never more than one army per war, until I get to WWII--which I do in microscale. Too much expense and as has been pointed out, commonly you'd need four armies, not two.

Note that in horse & musket I tend to go more for what the generals were trying for by way of uniforms and standards than by what they had to settle for.

AWInACWPainter23 Sep 2021 11:48 a.m. PST

DELETED

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