Help support TMP

"Bonnie Prince Charlie's 'promises' in 1745?" Topic

7 Posts

All members in good standing are free to post here. Opinions expressed here are solely those of the posters, and have not been cleared with nor are they endorsed by The Miniatures Page.

For more information, see the TMP FAQ.

Back to the 18th Century Discussion Message Board

Areas of Interest

18th Century

568 hits since 24 May 2018
©1994-2019 Bill Armintrout
Comments or corrections?

redcoat24 May 2018 4:50 a.m. PST

Hi all,

I have been taken to task for writing a summary of the '45 in which I claimed that, at Derby, the clan chiefs and other Jacobite army leaders realised that BPC had 'lied' to them about the promised French invasion and English Jacobite risings (both of which had clearly failed to materialise).

Would anyone please just authoritatively confirm this error on my part before I amend my summary? In short, did BPC genuinely believe his own promises? Were these promises culpable wishful thinking on his part? Or did he knowingly mislead the Jacobite leadership in Scotland?

Thanks all, in advance, for any observations!

advocate24 May 2018 5:41 a.m. PST

I think most Scots, let alone Charlie, expected more from the English. I expect that Charlie believed that the French would land in his support, rather than that he deliberately lied. But I could be wrong.
Christopher Duffy ("The '45" and a more recent one whose name escapes me) is good on what happened at Derby. As for an authority on the matter? They are all dead…

22ndFoot24 May 2018 6:26 a.m. PST

I would second either of Duffy's books (Fight for the Throne or The '45). I like Stuart Reid's 1745: A Military History of the Last Jacobite Rising too but it is not nearly as in depth as Duffy.

Old Peculiar24 May 2018 7:00 a.m. PST

The decision at Derby meant that you cannot draw any form conclusion. If the Jacobites had marched on would they have gained more support? Maybe, but not enough to win I feel. The invasion was based on miscalculation rather than lies.

French forces and supplies were sent, and could have resulted in a different winner at Culloden, if they had not been dispersed or blockaded by weather and the Royal Navy.

French officers may have had a positive effect in the "considerations" of the Jacobite commanders, who had divided opinions and lacked decisive thought.

Gone Fishing24 May 2018 7:27 a.m. PST

No expert here, but I think OP nailed it. The invasion's failure had far more to do with human nature and bungling, along with a good dose of bad luck, than any wilful deceit.

I've always found Charles an immensely likeable young man with his heart in the right place, though his later years make rather depressing reading.

Arteis0224 May 2018 5:00 p.m. PST

I thought he was portrayed very well in 'Outlander' by actor Andrew Gower:


advocate25 May 2018 4:03 a.m. PST

I might ask what sources you used for the original summary…

Sorry - only verified members can post on the forums.