"Battlegroup vs Rapid Fire for 15mm?" Topic

Looking for rules for a new North Africa project. I like both Crossfire and Blitzkrieg Commande, but they don't scratch the itch I'm looking at.

Criteria: looking to maneuver platoons and or companies, not squads. My infantry are based in stands of twos and threes, with weapon sections separate. Also looking for fairly standard rules (you go, I go is alright, and dicing for orders is alright) but fairly easy to teach for convention games and public demos.

From reading Rapid Fire, it looks about perfect, but a bit deadly. That might be okay. Battlegroup looks okay, too, but I have only glanced.

What am I missing? What experiences and suggestions do you folks got?

Chuck

Don't know anything about Crossfire, but Rapid Fire is relatively easy to pick up for newcomers. The basic infantry unit is the company, but it looks like a section/squad when on the table. There are no orders as such and infantry can die in droves and fairly quickly.

I've found that its simplicity allows you to modify what you don't like and bring in stuff that you do. Most of all you can fight a large game in a short time. But if you want "realism" you should perhaps look elsewhere.

I'm a big Battlegroup fan. Haven't played RF in awhile. BG has an active and helpful forum here:

link

Mike

I just played Rapid Fire for the first time a couple of weeks ago. I enjoyed the rules. We normally play Spearhead for WWII. Neither are super detailed. However if you want a fun game…I like them both. I tinkered with Command Decision but could not get into it. I'm not sure why as it seemed fine.
I have never played Battlegroup but will look at the site.

Like Rapid Fire a lot but as with above have never played Battlegroup

If loving crossfire, it's easy to go up one level, with each stand going for a platoon, 3 plus an HQ making a Company.

Just make a 1:3 or 1:5 in relation to heavy weapons and AFVs.

The game engine is flexible enough for that – I known, as I have done it in the past, around 1999/2001.

If you want to move companies then Rapid Fire would nominally seem the better fit but it's really a skirmish game reskinned to a higher level. A battalion is pretty much a platoon in terms if figure numbers with a company functioning as a squad in effect.

So really it's more about the sort of gane you want as it's not by definition a 'battalion' level set as we have played RF as a 1 – 1 gane and it worker fine.

As for Battlegroup, I write bits of it so will let some one else comment on that.

I have run a Rapid Fire game for years at HMGS-South's RECON and HURRICON. I believe it pretty much fills your criteria. I tell the new players in our games that by about turn 3 they will be running the game themselves. As I have stated before I find it a simple without being simplistic game. It can be scaled up or down. For example the Rapid Fire Battle of the Bulge scenario book has a divisional level game.

I like that you only need to buy the basic rules. There are other books with scenarios and orders of battle for those who dont wish to look the information up but none are necessary to play. The rules are well supported with the Rapid Fire site and two Yahoo groups. All charts and data are available for free as PDFs on the Rapid Fire site. For example when new weapon statistics are added the list on the site is updated and you can download the new list. No longer have to buy a dozen books to get the different weapons for the different fronts.

We play RF, after a trying a number of rules. Best of the lot. We've not tried BG so I cannot say?

I've played Rapid Fire, and Piers Brand hit it on the head for me. It just doesn't "feel" like a higher level game. It feels like a reinforced platoon level game.

I've played BG, and we've enjoyed it. You remove individual figures, so if you've based multiple castings on you'll need to track casualties with a die or something. My figures are individually based, but a lot of my opponents' are FoW based, and it all works.

Although if you looking at a stand being a platoon, Battlegroup isn't that. It's a fireteam.

Have you considered I Ain't Been Shot Mum from the Toofatlardies? The smallest maneuver element is a platoon, and it is supported by a huge amount of scenario books and well researched orders of battle books. (I was startled to learn that the latest OOB book for the German 1940 Invasion of France, lists eleven types of infantry divisions, and each armoured division also has its own list!)

RF is quite fun, but very abstract. It often feels like a BG level game that thinks it is a platoon level game.

I enjoy Battlegroup and have played it at BG level with no problems,

Tally Ho!

We use BA for company-level games all the time – we dumped the 'massive damage' rule to avoid fiddling about with loss of LMG/SMG/NCO to speed things up. We've also played lots of games at battalion level with 3-4-5 players on either side and it works fine.
We used to play RF as our 'standard' rule set and sometimes use Crossfire because that's what our 54mm kit is based for.

We've played Five Core Company Comander a couple of times and it has been enjoyable and easy to learn. I haven't played the other two sets. A stand is a squad and a platoon with support is what a player would command.

link

Have you looked at Rommel from Sam Mustafa?
It seems to be the level you asked about.
sammustafa.com/rommel

Field of Battle WWI is set at each stand is a Company. The rules have a load of Disional organisational info in them.

Panzer Korps is set at the same level. I do not use these rules. However, the also have a ton of scenarios published. They also fly have released many of them in their yahoo group and website. They are first rate!

Thanks,

John

Played a few games of RF, find it too simplistic and over dependent on good dice throws. Companies can disappear very quickly if you are unlucky. Played quite a lot of Battlegroup; you are actually controlling individual squads or vehicles, so probably not what you are looking for. Having said that, it can provide a good game (although I still find the artillery/HE rules rather complex). The BR system means that you almost always get a clear cut result for a game.
Personally, I would stick with Blitzkrieg Commander. The activation system brings in a nice bit of uncertainty as to how far you you can move a squad. Mechanisms for firing and combat are pretty straightforward.
You might also take a look at the Two Fat Lardies rules such as " I Ain't Been Shot Mum" or " Chain of Command".

I really don't like Rapid Fire. But if you want one stand to represent a platoon then you won't want Battlegroup; that is a 1=1 figure ratio set of rules. So….no, I really can't recommend Rapid Fire. Try Command Decision.

Battlefront WWII was my favorite rulesset for 15mm and company plus level gaming. Rules a little challenging (reading length) but actually plays easily.

Fireball Forward is fairly simple. The maneuver element is a platoon, squads are individually based 3 or so to a base -think Squad Leader. This is a company+ level game and seems to go over well at conventions. They have a desert scenario book – this can be played 6mm to 20mm.

IABSM requires a lot of figures but is a good company+ representation.

RF is a tried and true set – 1 fig seems to represents about 15 and a tank about 3-5. It does looks like a skirmish game. Has good scenario books/resources for the desert.

Like Battlegroup a lot, but it is a skirmish game.

Two Hour Wargames Company level rules and Five Corps are possibly good matches for you.

Battlegroup can be a Skirmish game if you want it to be .

It also holds well for very much larger games . You may need to allocate ammo usage to platoons rather than single tanks to simplify this book keeping side of things.